How to correct sights on 1860 Army?

[Maillemaker]

I've got an 1858 Remmy that I use for N-SSA shooting, but I recently also bought an 1860 Army.

It seems to group best with 30 grains 3F Shuetzen. But at 25 yards it shoots about 6-8" high.

The 1860 Army has a staked front blade. It's not really set up for a dovetail front sight. I don't think you can cut the notch in the hammer deep enough to account for being that far off.

What do you suggest, if anything, to make it shoot to point of aim?

Steve

[Hickok]

Steve, I have done a few of these myself and it isn't very difficult. You can drive out the front sight with a punch, something soft like brass, I usually start from the backside of the sight and carefully tap it out. I wrap all aroung the area with black electrical tape so if i slip I don't mar the barrel finish. The front sight is sorta of a half moon shape on the bottom and they kinda' rock their way out.

I then get a piece of brass and file it down so as to get a very snug fit in the slot of the barrel and place a piece of wood on top of the brass replacement sight and tap it down with a small hammer. If the fit is not tight enough, you can peen the sides of the brass a little to widen the soft brass for a tighter fit. A touch of J B weld, or soldier could also be applied. Mine are all simply "crush fit" like the original sight and have never come loose.

Make the replacement sight a good bit taller so you can file it down to regulate the poin of impact. I like a square blade front sight, and then i open up the notch in the hammer to a good square to match the front sight. You can regulate windage slightly on the hammer sight by cutting the sight groove to the left or right. Also the replacement front sight can have one side or the other filed off to regulate windage. I will try to post some pisture of my front sights on my 1860 Colts.

You could also have a dove tail cut on the barrel and use a dovetail front sight.

[Hickok]

203220332034 Front sight height measured from top of barrel=.235"
Front sight width=.120"
Rear sight groove in hammer=.080"
These are just demensions of what my sights worked out to to be zeroed @ 25 yards. Make your front taller so you have something to work with.

[Maillemaker]

Thanks for the pictures and the instructions!

I'm a little scared of ruining the profile of the gun, but I guess there's nothing for it - if you need a higher front sight you need a higher front sight. I like the way yours turned out.

Steve

[Rebel Dave]

Steve

Wouldn't this be a good example/opportunity to use the sighting in formula, that was talked about recently. I would think it would be. "sight radius (in inches) divided by the range (in inches) = the amount to raise front sight"

Rebel Dave

[Hickok]

Steve you can file, contour and blend that taller front sight and make it look like the revolver came that way.20362035

[Maillemaker]

Wouldn't this be a good example/opportunity to use the sighting in formula, that was talked about recently. I would think it would be. "sight radius (in inches) divided by the range (in inches) = the amount to raise front sight"

Yup. I know how to adjust sights, I just didn't know how to replace the sight on an 1860 Army.

Steve

[Mike Stein]

Steve, You don't say if you've got Pietta or Uberti.
Using Hickox's method is probably the best.
Filing the hammer notch can sometimes work if the front sight is tall enough. If it is not then your front sight will disappear behind the barrel profile.
I've seen one original that had a ladder sight dovetailed into the rear of the barrel as the original purchaser wanted to use the detachable shoulder stock. I thought I had the link in my favorites but am unable to find it right now but do know that there is an example of that approach.

The Pietta v. Uberti is to let you know that VTI offers a hardened screw set for the Uberti pistols so you can have more durable wear surfaces. Finally there are a couple of spring sets including a round wire trigger/bolt flat spring replacement as that one is known to break. Wolf offers a flat mainspring replacement as well.

[R. McAuley 3014V]

FYI

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii305/rmac1023/FrontSightElevationCorrectionChart_zps3bb38be5.jpg

[Maillemaker]

It's a Pietta.

I ordered some brass shim stock last night to make a new sight. I don't think the rear sight notch could be deepened enough to accommodate an 8" problem.

Steve

[Hickok]

It's so easy a caveman could do it!:D

Steve, after you get the sight made and get it attached, and start shooting and regulating the point of impact, always tape up the barrel surface or cover it with something when you start filing the sight. Trust me on this. I have thought a couple of times, "I just need a couple of thousandths off, I'll be careful with the file, no need to wrap any tape on the barrel." WRONG! When using a file, the tip of the file can go a long way up the barrel from the sight and make a scratch. You will definately make up new cuss words.:mad:

[Maillemaker]

When you hammer the new sight into place, do you support the bottom of the barrel, or do you insert a rod into the barrel and support it from inside the barrel so as to prevent collapsing the barrel?

Steve

[Hickok]

Steve, I always take apiece of soft wood like pine or such, place a towel or the like on the wood and then set the barrel on that. I use a small hammer, as it doesn't take much force or impact to set the brass sight into the groove. Just a quick peck or two and the brass will go in. You want a sort of a crush fit. Make sure to place a piece of wood or hard plastic like a tooth brush handle on the sight, and then tap with the hammer. You can also stake the sides of the sight in by using a sharp, small wood chisle right along side of the sight, but I don't like to disfigure the metal this way.

Make your brass a snug fit, and it will seat in with just a good tap. No enough force to damage the barrel. When you remove the old sight, you will get a better idea, as they come out fairly easy.

Others may also have some advice.

Use care and patience. If a little to tight, relieve some metal from the brass. A little too loose, and you can smack the brass and "flair" or peen it out some, and dress again with a file.

Also, after all is done and sighted in, you can lightly polish the sight with some 600 grit and then some 1000 grit paper, makes it look real good.

[Maillemaker]

Steve, I always take apiece of soft wood like pine or such, place a towel or the like on the wood and then set the barrel on that. I use a small hammer, as it doesn't take much force or impact to set the brass sight into the groove. Just a quick peck or two and the brass will go in. You want a sort of a crush fit.

Great explanation, I follow you exactly. I've worked metal over the years making medieval armour and setting rivets so I know just what you mean. I did not expect that it would take much force to seat the sight but did not know if it would be necessary to support the inside of the barrel.

I was not so much worried about collapsing the barrel as I am about possibly dimpling the thin spot above the rifling where the sight pocket is.

Steve

[David Sulewski]

When replacing the front sight on an 1860 Colt it is not advisable to “hammer” the replacement blade straight down into the slot in the barrel. This method will almost always cause damage to the barrel. The sight slot is cut rounded, like a rocker to allow the sight blade to be seated with very little pressure on the barrel.
After the bottom of the replacement blade is shaped like arocker matching the rounded shape of the slot and the width is set a few thousands over the width of the slot in the barrel, start the blade into the slot from the front of the barrel to the rear. Match the angle of the rocker shaped blade to the rocker shaped slot (about 20 degrees) and begin tapping itinto place from the end forward end of the brass blade, allowing the brass sight to fallow the shape of the slot as you proceed. After a few taps the brass blade will rotate in the barrel slot and progress to the end of the slot and into position without undue pressure being placed on the bottom of the slot. After it is in place it can be lightly staked on each side or silver soldered.
I have replaced several sights on 1860 Colts, steel andbrass, using this method
Tried to explain this as accurately as possible but if you have trouble visualizing this method and want to try it, send me an e-mail andI will send you a line drawing of this method.

[Hickok]

Dave is right. I should have explained that part better. In my second post I mention the half moon shape and rocking it out. Tap it back in just the way you take out, rolls and rocks in. Once you take the original sight out you will see how it works. Good call by Dave and my oversight. Just taking for granted you would see how it is set up when you remove the old sight.

[Hickok]

Ah ha, Steve, now we see where the moniker "Maillemaker" hails from!:D

Look real close when you get the sight blade out, you may see where Pietta staked the sides near the slot.

[Maillemaker]

Ah ha, Steve, now we see where the moniker "Maillemaker" hails from

:)

Many years ago:

http://forth-armoury.com/photo_gallery/my_kit/maille_kit1.JPG

[John Holland]

Steve, very nice. If we had a "Like" button I'd click it for you!
JDH

[Hickok]

Steve, how much does that maille weigh that you wearing?

Keep us posted on how the Colt sight progresses.

[Maillemaker]

My brass stock came in today, so I will probably bite the bullet and knock the original sight out tomorrow.

The kit I am wearing in the photo probably is about 30 pounds total, clothes and all.

Steve

[Maillemaker]

Well, my brass stock came in tonight, so I went out in the shop and in a couple of hours I had a new sight installed.

I made a article on how I did it here:

http://www.4thla.com/articles/1860_sight/1860_sight.htm

Thanks everyone for your help - it worked out just like you said.

Of course my sight is now waaaay too tall, but I'll cut it down and shape it as I get it sighted in.

http://www.4thla.com/articles/1860_sight/IMG_0843_small.JPG

Steve

[Hickok]

Steve, it was so easy a Knight of the Roundtable could do it!!!:D

I hunt deer with a .44 mag and .45 Long Colt and of course use only cast boolits. I find I get a better off hand zero if I bench zero my handguns with just my wrists supported by sandbags, and the revolver held and only touching my hands. If I bench the revolver itself on the sandbags, when i shoot offhand, the zeroes are different.

This may be a consideration to you if you compete offhand. Others may differ, but I have found this to be true when I shoot handguns.

You probably already know this, but my bp revolvers, (Pietta 1860, Pietta 1858 Rem., Uberti 1860 Colt) but they shoot best with a .454" roundball. Never could get a conical bullet to shoot as good.

Glad it went well for you.

[Hickok]

Steve, also your article is a great resource for others when working with the Colt revolver. Very well done!

[Maillemaker]

I've used a sight calculator to figure out I needed about an additional .11 inches of sight. So I went ahead and cut the sight down to close to the right size, with a little extra for final tuning. I've updated the web page to show it.

I'm going to try it out tomorrow.

http://www.4thla.com/articles/1860_sight/P1010038_small.JPG

Steve

[Maillemaker]

So I finalized my carving on my new replacement 1860 Army sight today. Probably premature as I'm not getting fantastic groups with it yet but oh well.

Here are the results of shooting it off the bench and off hand:

http://imgur.com/a/08tMF

I also shot my 1858 Remington. Off the bench it shoots a single hole in the paper. However the sights are about 4 inches off to the left. I've got a dovetail replacement but I am waiting for my gunsmith to get his mill running again.

http://imgur.com/a/XL3Rh

Sure wish we could use both hands for shooting these things! :)

Steve

[Muley Gil]

" I've got a dovetail replacement but I am waiting for my gunsmith to get his mill running again."

You ain't got a good file?

[Maillemaker]

You can make a dovetail slot with a file?

I mean, I'm sure you can, but I'd be afraid to do it. I figured it needed to be more precise and match the correct angle and all.

How do you do it with a file?

Steve

[Rebel Dave]

Steve
Their are special files for dove tales, they only cut on one side, they are triangular. You can get them from Midway. They work good, but you have to go slow. You first cut a few lines with a good straight hack saw, clear out the saw cuts, and then file. Take your time.

Rebel Dave

[Jim Barber]

Them there is some big cojones-- I keep coming up with a mathematical formula that goes something like, "me + barrel + hacksaw or file = {train wreck sounds}"
...then again, the fellow who put the front sight on my Springfield put the barrel in a vise, dropped the sight on top, eyeballed, it, said, "that look good to you?" and then silver soldered it in place, dead-on. I think some people have a knack for the Mechanical Arts. I do not, to my great detriment...

Cheers!
Jim B.

[Maillemaker]

I'm not surprised that this has been done with files - many old firearms were made with little more than files and drills.

But I think I'm going to leave this to the precision of a mill with a dovetail cutter.

Steve

[Will]

Larry Potterfield of "Midway USA" has two videos on cutting front sight dovetails, one with a mill and one with a file. You might want to take a look at these.

Will