2f shooting better.

[Hickok]

Shooting my PH 2 band Enfield to get the sights dailed in for 50 and 100 yards. Rifle was bedded with "brown paper" shims, but I decided to bed it full length with Acraglass. Bedding came out real nice!

Been using Goex 3f with the PH 565 minie, sized to .575", weighed bullets and weighed powder charge of 50 gr. 3F grouped best. Consistant benched 2 inch groups at 50 and 4 inch groups at 100, but now and again I had vertical shots high or low out of the group. Everything was good and tight, would shoot some more groups, and and now and again vertical stringing.

I then got looking at the 3f powder and the grain size looks to be a mix of small grains and big grains, like a dukes mixture of several different size granulars of powder. I then opened a can of 2f, and all the grains looked consistant size, almost perfectly identical. Went an checked another can of Goex 3f, and like the first can of 3f, the granulation was fine, medium and chunky. Not consistant.

So, thinking this 3f hodgepodge of grain size might cause variation in velocity, I loaded up 2f behind the PH Minie. I got keyholes at 50 grains, and then kept bumping it up the charge, until at 60 gr of 2f, the rifle put three shots into a ragged hole @ 50 yards, about the size of my thumb.
Tryed 60 grains again and 1 3/8" group at fifty. OK, I'm shooting all 3 shot groups, didn't bring alot of minies, but I'm on the tight track now.

Take it to 100 and it shoots a 3 in group, no flers. Another group, 3 1/2 inches. All the groups nice and round, no flyers.

Sights worked out nice, +1" high @ 50 with rear sight all the way down on 100 yd setting, moved slide to 200 and +3 high 100 yds, wel centered. Suits me fine.

I did brush the bore down between groups. Lube was 1 part beeswax/ 1 part olive oil.

Has anyone ever noticed this with Goex 3F? Maybe it was just the lot of powder I have?

All I can say is the difference in shooting was very apparent, maybe this rifle just likes 2f better.

Looking back, I should have chronographed the 3f loads, as a big spread in velocity would tell the tale.

[Maillemaker]

That's cool to hear about! I'm thinking of getting a chronograph for trying to determine once and for all what is giving consistent velocities.

Steve

[Rich Foster]

Welcome to the world of blackpowder. Now you know why there are different brands of it. Yes Goex 3f does sometimes look like a mix of small grades. This is what you usually get when you get to the bottom of a keg of powder or when the manufactor fills cans with the stuff that filters down. I have 4 pounds from a bottom of a keg that will make your brain spin thinking what is wrong my gun. Yes 2f does seem to be more consistant in size you just have to use more of it. As long as you keep a close eye of fouling build up of 2f in bore. 3f burns quicker and hotter which means less fouling is why most people use it. I have been skirmishing for 34 years and this year is the first time I have experienced this with 3f goex. Always heard tales. I always roll keg bag to keep it mixed up and settling in bottom of bag before extracting any powder somehow now I am one telling the tale. Good Luck, Rich

[MR. GADGET]

Found the same and now only use FF in the gun shooting in the range of 50-60 for most all my guns.....Other then SB then I jump to 84 grns

[Hickok]

That's cool to hear about! I'm thinking of getting a chronograph for trying to determine once and for all what is giving consistent velocities.

SteveSteve when you get your Chronograph, you may have to put your screens at a farther distance away than normally recommended for smokeless loads. I had to do this as it seems the smoke and lube can sometimes confuse the readings.

[Jud96]

My family has used nothing but FFg Goex in musket for over 30 years and have never had a problem. Groups are always under 2" at 50yards and under 4" at 100yards. Actually you get more fouling build up in the back of the barrel with FFFg because it burns so hot and fast the fouling doesn't travel the full length of the barrel like it does in FFg. The build up of fouling in the back of the barrel will cause more cook offs and the barrel will get fouled up alot faster because the fouling stays in one spot.

[Eggman]

An interesting take. Way way back I switched to FFFg for everything except the big bores because the FFg fouled the bore so much more (I don't use large charges in anything). I believe the greater share of fouling comes from incomplete combustion. Watch the shower of sparks exiting the smoothies - and check the fouling afterwards therein.
I've never had a cook off. This is a separate issue.

[R. McAuley 3014V]

I too switched to the triple-fine blackpowder for the faster ignition and higher chamber pressure but lower charge weight to compensate for the accuracy I got with double-fine blackpowder. This change has been "felt" most in reducing the recoil both when I shot my P/60 Enfield, and more recently in shooting the 24" barrelled .69-cal Richmond Carbine, which having the shorter barrel possesses a greater recoil than longer barrel variants. Now I used the same weight charge for both my '55 Rifle and '62 (.58) Richmond Carbine, and compensate for elevation in my sight picture (i.e. 6:00 for 50 yards; 12:00 for 100 yards), and does not seem to have any affect on which bullet I use, whether I shoot the Lee Ashcan, or the Rapine 315-gr wadcutter, or the .577 Hodgdon. They each perform the same, consistently.

[Hickok]

3 shots groups arent much of a test for skirmishing. I need to shoot some long strings without brushing to check the fowling. Will have to get some new cans of 3f and give it another go.

The Swiss is a proposed better grade of powder, but sure is expensive as to Goex, so I will get some new cans of Goex.