Burnside Cartridge

[StrawHat]

What is the correct bullet for the Burnside cartridge? I know Rapine is gone and I am trying to find a suitable alternative.

Thanks.

[John Holland]

Contact "Moose Moulds", they'll take care of your mould needs!

[ian45662]

What about cases? Anyone making plastic ones? About how many firings can you expect from a brass case?

[Mike w/ 34th]

You can also shoot .562 roundball in it. Pretty good at 50 yards, by at 100, it pulls to the right.

Cheers,

Michael

[StrawHat]

Thanks for the info. I contacted Moose, they said there was not a lot of requests for the mold and they don't have one. I did the roundball back in the early 70s. Now looking for a conical to work with. Realistically, I will not need more than 100 to satisfy my needs, I will keep looking.

I am not aware of anyone making plastic cases. I believe the brass ones are as durable as any other brass casing. I have some for the 50-70 and the 38 Special that have been reloaded a lot of times (15+). When I crack the first Burnside case, I will let you know.

[ms3635v]

Check Ebay periodically under bullet moulds. Sometimes Rapine moulds appear for sale there. One of my teammates has been shooting a Burnside for many years and is using plastic cases that he bought at the Nationals about 20 years ago. The persons selling the plastic cases never appeared at the Nationals again, to his knowledge.

[gemmer]

Go to Lodgewood's site and click on BULLETS. The gentleman listed there casts Burnsides from a Rapine mould.

Duane

[Steve Weems]

I believe Lodgewood may carry plastic Burside cases in the near future--give them a call. I am just starting with the Burnside and
have found that you have to adjust the length of the new brass cases to fit your particular Burnside. I am hoping the Plastic cases
may be a little more forgiving.

[macvcallsign]

Try to fine an old Lyman or Ideal mold #557456. I believe this is the bullet that has been used for Burnside shooters. We have had a number of Burnside shooters on our team in the past and this is the mold they have used. One of our members use to make cases out of Aluminum and worked quit well.

Good Luck on your mold search.

Dennis Schuler
4th Kentucky Cavalry, CSA
1561V

[StrawHat]

Thank you to all who have responded. I am not a skirmisher but the Burnside is too good to let sit idle. As I mentioned, 100 bullets will probably keep me shooting for years, at least the way I shoot. I will place a WTB on one of the other fora to see if anyone has bullets for sale.

When I get her going again, I will let you all know.

Interesting to hear about the plastic cases.

[StrawHat]

Anyone have 100 bullets from the Rapine mold they would like to sell?

[George Gompf]

I have several Burnside molds in stock I recently cut. They are .55 cal. I can get one to you with handles for $175 plus shipping. George Gompf Tennessee Bullet Molds, LLC tnmolds@gmail.com

[StrawHat]

I have several Burnside molds in stock I recently cut. They are .55 cal. I can get one to you with handles for $175 plus shipping. George Gompf Tennessee Bullet Molds, LLC tnmolds@gmail.com

email sent.

Still looking for bullets.

[StrawHat]

I have 25 of the Lyman bullet on hand and they fit the bore. A bit loose in the case so how were they crimped in place originally or more to the point, how does one crimp them today. Not many Burnside reloading dies available!

So, what do you fellows use to crimp the bullet in place?

Thanks.

[Mike w/ 34th]

Dip the bullet in lube and stick it in the case while the lube is warm. That will hold it in.

[StrawHat]

Dip the bullet in lube and stick it in the case while the lube is warm. That will hold it in.


You know, I thought of that but it just seemed to simple. I do that with the 50-70 but for some reason thought the Burnside needed a crimp. Thank you for the info.

Do you shoot a Burnside?

[Mike w/ 34th]

Yes, I skirmish with one. They're a fast, handy carbine. I don't know why we don't have more of them on the line.

The original rounds were brass foil, and they indeed were crimped around the bullet, to an extent, and the "ring" of the case was hollow and filled with lube.

The modern turned brass cases would not tolerate crimping. You'd rip the lip right off it, probably with the first or second shot. So, just use lube or friction to hold the bullet in the case. Just be reasonably careful with them, like if you're riding to the range on horseback, keep the rounds bullet-side-up in a block or a cartridge box.

I've been using the same cases for 12+ years, probably fired each one of them 25-30 times. I don't resize them, and I haven't annealed them but once. A Burnside case will shoot fine if the lip is cracked, as long as the crack is lengthwise (not separating the lip from the case) and doesn't go past the ring. The ring is really the gas seal.

[Jim Wimbish, 10395]

Mike,

Interesting to know that you shoot a Burnside. In my 13 years of skirmishing, I've never seen one on the line. Hope I wind up near you on carbine team one of these days so I can watch you shoot it.

I have owned about 4 Burnsides over the years. In my opinion, the biggest problems with the guns are the sights and the ammunition. The brass cartridges are unique and have gotten pretty expensive. Don't lend themselves to any kind of sizing. My gun shot about 7 inches high at 50 yards with the Rapine bullet and I didn't want to remove the original sight to correct for this. I originally shot the nylon tubes, which disappeared from the market many years ago.

For the Burnside to become more popular, I would say the ammo would have to become a little more skirmisher friendly than it is. They are beautifully crafted guns in any case, and readily available at pretty decent prices in shooter condition. If anyone has a nice Second Model Burnside that they want to sell, drop me a note. These have no forestock.

[Mike w/ 34th]

Jim,

I've known four or five other Burnside shooters over the years. Before the repro Smiths and Maynards and Gallagers came along, the Burnside was supposedly much more popular. It was the third or fourth most-produced carbine during the war, so there were plenty available.

The sights take some getting used to. With original sights, you level the front blade with the shoulder of the back sight, and you're in the right neighborhood.

The ammunition is an investment, but the way I look at it, I've used my brass for 12 years, and the only problem I've had is losing cases on the line. You don't need to size it because the tapered chamber and sealing on the ring make it very tolerant of variations in the ammo. That was actually one of Burnside's original design innovations. He was basically taking the Hall and fixing the gas leakage problem. I can make 50 rounds of Burnside ammo in about 20 minutes using roundballs.

The only problem I've had is short cases which don't seal the back of the breech properly. Had fouling build up today and cause a stuck case, but that's only maybe the second time ever, compared to 2 or 3 per relay with my Gallager.

[StrawHat]

Keep the information coming! As I said earlier, I used to shoot it with round balls when I was in my teens. I do not recall a lot of specifics so I enjoy reading about what is currently being done with the Burnside.

[StrawHat]

Okay, if I am not mistaken, the Burnside cartridges were carried in a cartridge box. Except for the holes to hold the cartridges being tapered, was the box different from other cartridge boxes?

[John Wells 3rd US]

I believe Lodgewood may carry plastic Burside cases in the near future--give them a call. I am just starting with the Burnside and
have found that you have to adjust the length of the new brass cases to fit your particular Burnside. I am hoping the Plastic cases
may be a little more forgiving.

I'm surprised at the case length issue, as back portion of the Burnside breechblock, when properly functioning, telescopes or slides to adjust headspace. is it possible yours is frozen up?

[Steve Weems]

I'm surprised at the case length issue, as back portion of the Burnside breechblock, when properly functioning, telescopes or slides to adjust headspace. is it possible yours is frozen up?

John--The rear of the breech block does telesope. My understanding is that these cases are made very long to adjust for differences in
the condition of the various Burnsides and I have seen a number of comments over the years of others having to shorten these cases.
The mechanical condition of my Burnside is very good and the breech block serial number matches to the rest of the rifle which is a
problem with some of the carbines out there.

[Carolina Reb]

I've shot Burnsides on and off for years. Some of my brass cases are 30 years old. Never had much luck with the plastic cases, the backs burned out after two or three shots. The new brass cases from Lodgewood are a couple thousandths too long for my chamber, but that was easy to fix. Otherwise, they fit better around the ring than the ones from 25 years ago. They ought to last a very long time.

The Burnside I'm shooting now is an early 4th model without the breechblock guide screw. Someone had one just like it at the National, and it was only a few numbers away from mine. Saw several other Burnsides on the line while safetying individuals, so maybe they are catching on.

Another option for a mold is the NEI 556-420 PB.

[mdivancic]

I've decided to shooting my Burnside as my winter project this year, as I've got six months up here and Maine to work on it! So far I've ordered 10 cases from S&S and Lodgewood to compare to the original cases I have. All three are different, I'll work on getting pictures and drawing up later, but here's a summary:

Original: drawn brass 1.888 long with the doughnut being 1.625 from the base of the cartridge.
Lodgewood: turned brass 1.875 long with the doughnut being 1.657 from the base of the cartridge.
S&S: turned brass 1.845 long with the doughnut being 1.617 from the base.

The S&S and original will allow the breach of my 5th model carbine to close, the Lodgewood cartridge needs to be shortened, the distance from the base to the start of the doughnut seem to be the key. The Lodgewood is heaver than the S&S cartridge, the end of the cartridge is rounded like the original and the size of the doughnut matches the original. The S&S cartridge has a flat bottom and the doughnut is smaller than the original. Both cartridges opening are 0.556.

These were quick measurements, so don't hold me to them.

[Lou Lou Lou]

Good to hear,Mike.
look forward to seeing it on the line next year