Bullet selection with Hoyt .577" barrel 1 in 60 twist

[Jim Wimbish, 10395]

I am thinking about trying a different bullet for my Hoyt 1 in 60 twist 2 band rifle. What bullets have you had good success with and are there others that just didn't work well for you? I seem to be having the best luck with the longer 510 grain bullets ( Rapine mould). Curious to know if the shorter bullets work just as well. I am going to stick to the minie style bullets, no Wilkinsons. I use about 42 grains of Goex 3f with the 510 grain minie.

Thanks,

[ian45662]

I have the same set up. 1:60 577 hoyt. When I got it origionaly I sighted it in so that I would shoot the 510 grain minie @ 50 and 100 yards with a dead center hold. At one shoot I was running out of ammo so someone let me use some 315 semi wadcuters that were the same size and same 40 grain charge I was using with the 510s As luck would have it they shot just as good maybe even better at 50 and to beat all they hit 2" higher. So that means if I hold at the bottom of the bird it will hit dead center. If its really windy I shoot the 510 and hold right on. I shoot the 315 at 50 and the 510 at 100. This combo has worked extreamly well for me.

[ms3635v]

Jim try using an RCBS 500M. I was using it in my Whitacre barreled Zouave with great results. The 500M has a lot of bearing surface and shoots very well...they weigh out at about 520 grains with good, soft, lead. Not using the bullet now because I am now using a Wilkinson that shoots tighter groups.

[Rich Foster]

Jim, If you can find one Rapine International minnie. 455 grn minnie. 47grn fff goex, 1-60 Hoyt twist. A really good 100yd bullet. Been shooting it for 6 years. Said good bye to all none minnies. Did try 510 minnie and shot very well but it felt like launching a bowling ball. The slightly shorter and lighter but thick skirt International Minnie grouped better at 100yds with less recoil. A bullet Moose Moulds would do good if they made one. Hint,Hint. Of course you know all lighter bullets will do good at 50 but it is the heavier minnie that will hold up at 100yds with and without wind. Rich

[ian45662]

I will have to try the international. After shooting the 315s at 50 it does feel like I am shooting bowling balls when I switch to the 510s for 100. When I was pondering what I wanted when I was trying to figure out what musket I wanted to build someone recomended that I ask for the 1:60 when I ordered my barrel from hoyt. I think from what we are seeing that Rate of twist will shoot just about anything. I restored a 63 springfield for my wife. 33" 1:60 and it shoots like a champ also. 40 grains for my 50 and 100 yard load. 315 for 50 and 510 for 100. 1:60 is probably all I will ever use for the 33" stuff

[Ron/The Old Reb]

I also shoot the International Minne in my Hoyt relined Zouave with 45grs. 3F Goex. Shoots really well at 50 & 100 yards.

[Jim Mulligan 7288V]

I shoot the International (Brooks) 430g with 40ffg. Works very well. This bullet is great, lighter recoil and Burton (hi Phil) design.

[Jim Wimbish, 10395]

I didn't want to give it away in my original post, but I am experiencing some odd behavior with a .576 Rapine International with this particular gun. Most of the shots are extremely accurate but I get one every now and then that seems to inexplicably go right of the point of aim. I can normally call my shots, but some of these have left me scratching my head. I don't notice the problem with the heavier 510 minie and I'm going to try the Hodgon as well as some bullets cast with a .580 Rapine International mould that I have . I suspect that the bullet isn't always grabbing the rifling the way that it should and that a .578 Rapine International sized down would not have the same problem. I have a .577 barrel and I am sizing the bullets to .576.

Thanks for your replies.

[Rebel Dave]

You don't have a lead hardness problem do you,??.

Rebel Dave

[P A Laake 10798]

I shoot the Rapine International out of a Whitacre barrel and it seems to shoot the best when I fill the base cavity with lube....

[Lou Lou Lou]

Check the crown on your musket. I was chasing what I thought was a bad batch of lead. Crown solved the problem.

[Rich Foster]

Jim, From my experience the international Minnie has a low and high powder charge. It is about a 5 grain difference. Don't get caught with your powder dropping to this or you can get erratic shot every now and then. Also lead hardness could be a factor. When I started out with this bullet 42grn. fff goex would drop them in a 2 inch group everytime at 100yds of bench. After 1 1/2 years I was getting what I think is happening to you. Go back out and make sure you have soft lead bullets with different powder charges I would say between 45-48 grn fff goex and find the best group. I don't think it is bullet design. Rich

[Jim Wimbish, 10395]

Guys, Thanks for all the good suggestions. It's not the crown and its not the lead. When I size the bullet to .576, the sizer is only barely engaging the bottom band. There are variations in moulds. A .576 mould that casts a .577 bullet would have been fine. Unfortunately, the one I have is really a .575 mould instead of a .576. I have other guns that I can use this bullet with just fine that use .575 sized bullets. I have run across this problem before with other moulds when they cast a little on the small side. I have another Rapine mould that casts a 360 grain Smith bullet that is on the low side of .515". It performed marginally as you might expect in a Maynard. On most bullets, I believe the sizer should be engaging all of the bearing surface or you are going to have problems. I am pretty well convinced from your responses that the bullet, properly sized, will provide excellent results in my gun. The reason that I noticed the problem was a change in lead pots from Lee to RCBS. With the Lee, i had far less temperature control and I was using hotter lead that cast a slightly larger bullet. With the RCBS pot, I have better temperature control and slightly smaller, but more consistent bullets.

[Maillemaker]

Hey Jim,

Charles Hahn opened up a mold for me, taking a Lee Traditional Minnie out to .584.

Steve

[iron brigade]

http://hgmould.gunloads.com/casting/bulletdiameterenlargement.htm I used this on a undersize Rapine mould. enjoy!

[Rich Foster]

Thanks for that link. Very interesting. I have a M1911 that was my dads and he shot a lyman short wadcutter out of it. I could never find his mould after he past away. It was a .452460 165grn lyman he enlarged to .454 because his barrel was slightly large in dia. I even used that mould in my remington revolver with success. Might get a mould and try that link. Thanks, Rich

[moosette]

Morning All - in reply to the "Hint-Hint" regarding the International bullet - Moose is working on the cutters...started them right before the Nationals - so keep an eye out, they'll be released soon!:D

Thanks for keeping us in mind, have a great weekend!

Moosette (Sandy)
Moose Moulds, LLC

[Jim Wimbish, 10395]

Lou gets the prize for figuring this one it. Recrowned the barrel and the problem has gone away. Gunsmith looked at the muzzle and thought it looked OK, but I asked him to recrown it anyway. We also pulled the breech plug and examined the bore from the breech end. Everything looked fine with the rifling.

[Jim Wimbish, 10395]

I actually used several suggestions from this thread and wanted to thank all of you for your ideas. The Rapine International mould that I was using was probably producing a slightly undersized bullet for this barrel so I am using a larger diameter bullet and sizing it down. The barrel of the gun was recrowned. I also tried shooting a higher powder charge with the International which was a good idea since it has a fairly thick skirt. I wound up using 47 grains of Goex 3f instead of the 42.5 grains I was using. Sometimes the lighter load would shoot great, other times it wouldn't. However, I wound up switching away from the International at the recommendation of a friend of mine and went back to the Hodgdon which I shot years ago, but moved away from while I experimented with other bullets. I have found that it shoots great in my gun with just over 43 grains of Goex 3f and basically puts them in the same hole at 50 yards. I should be kicking myself right now for ever switching away from it. The Hodgdon shoots well at 100 yards too, but is more susceptible to wind drift so I am going to shoot a Rapine new style with just under 42 grains of Goex 3f at 100 yards. When I have time, I will experiment with the Rapine International some more with the 47 grain powder charge, but for now I am all set with musket.

[ian45662]

How wonder how often one should consider a re-crown job on a musket

[Ron/The Old Reb]

[QUOTE iHow wonder how often one should consider a re-crown job on a musket

When you start getting flyer's all over the target. Or like with my Zouave, when I couldn't hit the backer at 100yds. anymore.

[Rich Foster]

Yeah when your 50yds shooting is great and your 100yd goes haywire that is a good time to have it checked. I shot my Numerich barrel for 10 years and the crown was so worn back into bore i had to retire barrel. Rich