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Bob Chabalowski
04-27-2008, 10:57 PM
Is there a wilkerson bullet that is large enough to be used in a .582 barrel. thanks If there is one available that might work who carries them

Greg Edington
04-30-2008, 01:02 PM
Bob,

All of the 58 caliber Wilkinson bullet moulds I have designed have been a nominal 0.580 with bullets measuring 0.580 to 0.584 as cast. The bullet may be a bit smaller if mould prep is used in the inner cavity. Wilkinson bullets need to be no more than 0.002" undersized for best accuracy so any mould should serve your purpose in a 0.582 bore when cast with pure lead. :)

Below is a list of the 58 caliber Wilkinson moulds I have made.

1. Wilkinson Mk I - Brass bouble cavity mould, two wedge bullet 545 grains

2. Wilkinson Mk I - Aluminum single cavity mould, two wedge bullet 545 grains

Remarks: Updated Austrian new style bullet required at least 45 grs. of GOEX FFFg to shoot best accuracy, liked military loadings.

3. Wilkinson Improved Picket Mk II - Aluminum double cavity mould w/handles, single wedge bullet with small second groove on the wedge flat, beveled base, 445 grains.

Remarks: Improved version of the Improved Picket compression bullet. This is a Wilkinson as it has two grooves (compression & fletching groove on the wedge flat.) Designed for skirmisher who wanted less powder, less lead, and less recoil.

4. Wilkinson Improved Picket Mk III - Aluminum double cavity mould w/handles, improved Mk II bullet, beveled base is now a boat-tail, 437 grains

5. Wilkinson Improved Picket Mk III - Aluminum triple cavity mould w/o handles, improved Mk II bullet, beveled base is now a boat-tail, 437 grains

6. Wilkinson Improved Picket Mk III - Steel double cavity mould w/o handles, improved Mk II bullet, beveled base is now a boat-tail, 440 grains

Remarks: Bullet was a refinement of Mk II, lighter, better ballistics, and very accurate. :D Works with loads ranging from 39 to 70 grains depending on powder and lube.

7. Wilkinson Mk IV - Aluminum single cavity mould w captive core pin & handles, two wedge bullet, redesigned nose, boat-tailed indexable base, 510 grains.

Remarks: Designed based on US International Muzzle Loading Team members Ed Schneeman and Don Dixons comments about 100 meter international & long range competition requirements. The bullet is designed to compete against the huge 600 plus some grain minie' bullets :shock: used by freestyle rifles in the International Minie' competition, The original Mk I nose was redesigned, wedges & base redesigned to give the 487 grain version of this bullet a BC of 0.323 as compared to 0.2 for a 500 grain old style minie'. This made the Mk IV "slicker" than the huge minie's and gave it less recoil in stock rifles. :lol: Testing of the bullet indicate it gives up to 15% tighter groups than the Mk III. :D

Bob as far as I'm aware NE trade Company has sold out their inventory of Wilkinson bullets and no more will be fothcoming. I still have some moulds, and hope to be making improved versions of the Mk III and IV Wilkinson bullets again soon. :)

Best Wishes:

Greg Edington 8)

Mansionyac
04-30-2008, 09:26 PM
Greg, put me down for a Mk IV mould as soon as possible, preferably a six cavity.
John.

Bob Chabalowski
05-01-2008, 01:38 PM
Hi Greg,
Do you have any of the triple cavity Improved Picket MKIII available ?I want to use it in a Gatling gun. Please email direct at yknotknit@aol.com Bob

Greg Edington
05-01-2008, 03:08 PM
John,

Unfortnately the best I could do on the 58 caliber moulds is three cavities for right now. The bullets were too large to do six cavities on the available aluminum 6063 block. I toyed with the ideal of doing a four cavity steel block, but it runs into overheating issues to the point were a two cavity block is almost as fast and lighter too. I'm investigating doing a four cavity mould for the Mk IV out of 2024 Duraluminum gear alloy so that it can maintain production and be durable.

Best Wishes:

Greg Edington

Mansionyac
05-03-2008, 12:51 PM
OK, sounds good!

Charlie Hahn
06-20-2008, 08:10 AM
Hi Greg,

If you still have a MKIII and MK IV mould I would to purchase, Please respond to my email, etb9601@aol.com.

Thank you,

Charlie Hahn

Charlie Hahn
06-20-2008, 08:10 AM
Hi Greg,

If you still have a MKIII and MK IV mould I would to purchase, Please respond to my email, etb9601@aol.com.

Thank you,

Charlie Hahn

Greg Edington
06-24-2008, 10:53 PM
Hello,

I may be doing a run of the Wilkinson Mk IV bullets in steel. I've decided it's worth doing if there is the demand, and the Mk IV design justifies the effort.

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w53/gedington61/LRWBullet.jpg
Wilkinson Mk IV prototype 58 caliber long range bullet about 510 grains

The bullet offers some real performance improvements over the Mk III and would incorporate the following improvements

1. The mold will be two cavities vs. one
2. The mold will be 1214 manganese carbon steel vs. 6063 Aluminum
3. The mold will be base pour vs. nose pour increasing casting speed
4. The mold will have a fletching groove per the Mk III that can be marked to index the bullet upon loading.
5. The air vents are redesigned to improve surface finish and castability.
6. No nose flat

I'm not taking orders just seeing if there is interest in the improved mold, and bullet design.

Best Wishes:

Greg Edington 8)

dbm
06-25-2008, 08:09 AM
Greg,

Do you have any feedback on the performance of the Wilkinson bullet at long range? Here in the UK the Muzzle Loaders Association of Great Britain (http://www.mlagb.com) holds National Rifle Championships for Enfields out to 600 yards and a club I am in ( the Long Range Rifles Branch (http://www.longrangerifles.co.uk) of the MLAGB ) has an aggregate match for Enfields fired at 600 and 800 yards.

I currently shoot an original Short Rifle dated 1866, with heavy barrel and 1 in 48 twist rifling. I size my 565 grain Minie to .577. This combination gives me good accuracy (I won the 600 yard Championships last year and was second this year. Also won an aggregate match fired at 200, 300 & 400 yards earlier this month).

I am just wondering about any reduced recoil benefits of your 510 grain Mk.IV and possible improvement in accuracy. I am not however aware of much long range (beyond 200yd) shooting with Enfields in the US, but am keen to know at what ranges you have feedback for.

Regards,

David

Mansionyac
06-25-2008, 08:53 AM
I'll take one.

Charlie Hahn
06-25-2008, 09:08 AM
Greg,

I will take two moulds I will send deposit if required

Charlie Hahn
410-208-4736

MR. GADGET
06-25-2008, 10:27 AM
I would take one.

Bill Osby 12083
06-25-2008, 12:27 PM
I might be interested in the MK4. I have a mark 3 and think a heavier bullet would work better for me. I love casting the bullet but I have a hard time getting them to stay in the plastic tubes I'm used to. Too short and round. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Greg Edington
06-29-2008, 11:32 PM
David,

The furthest ballistics information I have for my designs is about 200 plus yards instrumented, 400 yards anecdotal. The Wilkinson Mk IV;s nose is based off of the New Style Williams bullet and its prototype the Wilkinson/Williams bullet. David both bullets have a 3 radius secant ogive nose design which is very efficient. David the 510 grain Mk IV bullet is efficient as my 560 grain Gardner bullet design which is 25% more efficient than the Lyman 575213 design.


http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w53/gedington61/BulletPerformance.jpg
1st Generation Improved Picket Wilkinson Compared to Lyman 575213 New Style drag

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w53/gedington61/BulletPerformanceSWC.jpg
Wilkinson/Williams with the New Nose vs. Lyman 575213 Performance curve

David as you can see from above the Lyman 575213 design (I guess you are shooting the "PH" variant from the weight) very closely follows the G1 drag curve. David, the Wilkinson/Williams bullet doesn't follow the G1 curve giving superior transonic performance. The new Mk IV has these improvements.

1 - Better bearing area
2 - Bullet has a boat-tail to help transonic performance and reduce drag
3 - Nose is improved for better weight distribution.
4 - Bullet is easily indexable
5 - Design allows easy casting & inspection

The Ballistic coefficient for this bullet is 0.323 vs. 0.24 for the Lyman 575213 new style mine. David based on the rough drag curves of these bullets the Wilkinson Mk IV would have a marked advantage at 600 yards, and be less subject to winds. The bullet would have to be shot at close to supersonic though to maximize its advantage (say 1030 feet per second). Anecdotal evidence David at 400 yards suggest that it shoots much tighter than typical minie' bullets on gongs and steel targets.

Best Wishes:

Greg Edington

Steamguy
06-30-2008, 10:07 AM
Greg
I would be interested in a two cavity mold
Mike Pierce

Steve Sharpe 0236
06-30-2008, 10:24 AM
Put me down for one. I am always interested in trying to reach out and touch the targets.

You can email me here or at swsharpe@hotmail.com

dbm
07-03-2008, 04:11 AM
Thanks for the informative post Greg.

BTW, I am shooting an RCBS Minie with a shallow cavity base.

David

Greg Edington
07-04-2008, 09:35 AM
David,

The RCBS Minie' essentially has the same ballistics as the Lyman new style. The nose profile of the RCBS is about the same as the new style so the drag curves should be almost identical. I had a rebuilt original P-61 Musketoon and that bullet was very accurate out of it (I still have the mold.) The Wilkinson Mk III & IV bullets advantages over it are the bacts that they cast faster, tend to be more consistant weight wise. The shallow cavity on your RCBS makes it easy to inspect also.

Best Wishes:

Greg Edington

Kurt Lacko 7862
07-07-2008, 11:20 AM
Greg, what are you planning the out of the mould diameter to be? Also how much can this bullet be sized? Thanks, Kurt.

Greg Edington
07-09-2008, 10:36 PM
Kurt,

I'm currently planning the bullet design and size such that it could be used in a bore size up to 0.585" and sized down to 0.573 in one pass on a ram type, or lubrisizer sizing press. It's only possible due to the bullet design and solid base. :D

Best Wishes:

Greg Edington

Kurt Lacko 7862
07-10-2008, 08:54 PM
Thanks Greg, that sounds very interesting! Kurt

Kurt Lacko 7862
07-11-2008, 11:02 AM
Greg, in case you didn't get my PM, please count me in if you run the molds. Also notify me if/when a deposit is needed. Thanks Kurt.

Mansionyac
07-17-2008, 01:29 PM
Greg, do you have any pics of fired and recovered Wilkinsons? I'm curious as to how much the bullet shortens when compressed during firing?

Steamguy
08-01-2008, 11:54 AM
Greg
Any new status to report on the Wilkinson Moulds? When can I get one?
Mike

macvcallsign
08-03-2008, 10:38 AM
Greg,

If you are still taking a count of interest, Please put me down for one Wilkinson Mark IV moulds in Steel. Should you need a deposit or payment just let me know-E-mail is best.

Dennis Schuler
N-SSA
4th Kentucky Cavalry, CSA

Greg Edington
08-03-2008, 08:16 PM
Hello All,

I recently did some testing with Wilkinson bullets in revolvers, and thought that I'd post this photo. The tests indicat that a conical Wilkicon revolver bullet needs about 8-9 grs. of FFFg powder to fuller upset into the bore and that the bullets were stable.

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w53/gedington61/SANY0516A.jpg

Left To Right

1. Unsized 0.460" Wilkinson revolver bullet, OAL 0.618"
2. Sized 0.443" Wilkinson revolver bullet, OAL now 0.622"
3. Fired 0.443" Wilkinson revolver bullet expanded to size 0.447" load 6 grs. Elephant FFFg powder, one lubed 44 cal NETC fiber wad, an one over bullet fiber wad. Bullet recovered from water trap with 0.622 OAL reduced to 0.61".
4. Fired 0.443" Wilkinson revolver bullet expanded to bore size 0.449" load 9 grs. Elephant FFFg powder, one 44 cal NETC over powder fiber wad, MCM lube. Bullet recovered from underneath water trap with 0.622 OAL reduced to 0.61".
5. Fired 0.443" Wilkinson revolver bullet expanded to bore size 0.449" load 9 grs. Elephant FFFg powder, one 44 cal NETC over powder fiber wad, MCM lube. Bullet recovered from inside water trap.


http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w53/gedington61/SANY0498A.jpg

Water Trap

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w53/gedington61/SANY0501a.jpg

Water Trap after 6 grain loads tested

More to come later:)

Best Wishes:

Greg Edington 8)

Steamguy
09-21-2008, 10:05 AM
Anyone heard from Greg concerning his MkIV mould?
Mike P

Mansionyac
10-11-2008, 10:35 AM
Anyone heard from Greg concerning his MkIV mould?
Mike P

Back to top!

Mansionyac
10-30-2008, 07:24 AM
Back to top again. C'mon, Greg, what's going on with the mould?

Kurt Lacko 7862
11-01-2008, 11:14 AM
I'll bet its going to be a winter project? Kurt.

Greg Edington
11-02-2008, 07:30 PM
Hello All,

I have been absent the BB for awhile now and I apologize. I have had several problems, changes, and whatever the last 18 months, with the last six months being especially brutal in some ways. For those of you that curious basically dealing with a divorce, break up of a partnership with a long time business partner, son going to war in Iraq (he can see the Iran out of his barracks window), and starting a new job with the Department of Defense. This in no way excuses my poor behavior in not replying to requests or e-mails, and for that I apologize again.

The reason for the delay in the Mk IV molds steel molds is is due to quality. I had noticed during the production of the Mk III molds that on some of the molds that later became seconds that the steel blocks had chipped during production. I wanted to fix this problem before doing a next run or at least cut down the number of problem molds.

After much research I finally figured out what was cause the problem was a combination of material, manufacturing process, and cavity design. The material being used on the blocks is a low carbon free machining re-phosphorized steel. The cavities machined fine but some of the edges were chipping were gas relief grooves were cut. Apparently, the cutting process was stressing the crystal structure of the steel.

After some investigating , I came up with a solution to minimize the problem, which was to change the spacing of the grooves so that they miss any sharp angles in the mould cavity. The sharp angle along with the stress of the cut was the source of the chips along with the metal being used. The heating and slow cooling action of the casting process will insure that the molds will get a durable temper through use.

I should have pricing and delivery on the molds within a week or so. I do not anticipate them to be more than $100. They will used the same block as the Mk III mould, and will be set up to handle Lee, or RCBS handles. That's it for now thanks.

Greg Edington

Mansionyac
11-11-2008, 12:09 PM
Greg, any updates on who will be selling these?

R Filbert
12-28-2008, 12:14 PM
Hail to the Gardener! Verginys finest! Duck next time segiwhick!

Gary B
12-29-2008, 10:15 AM
Greg,
Are you going to be offering a test run or selling the Wilkinson Revolver bullet you showed earlier in this thread ? Looks interesting and may be worth a try.
Let me know, I would be interested.
Thanks,
Gary B.

Greg Edington
01-07-2009, 05:25 PM
Gary,

I'll let you know when the next batch come out for testing.

Thanks:

Greg Edington

Mansionyac
01-12-2009, 08:11 AM
Greg, do you have any info yet on when the next Wilkinson will be released or who will be selling it? Will it be out in time for me to work up loads and re sight for spring Nationals?

Greg Edington
01-17-2009, 08:09 AM
Hello,

Sorry for the delay work has been really busy as of late (I work for the Defense Logistics Agency and there is still a war going on.) I'm going to say the next Wilkinson will be out in March in either steel or 2024 Duraluminum alloy. The reason I'm considering 2024 is that unlike the softer 6063/64 alloys used by Lee 2024 is a high strength gear aluminum with good wearing abilities and a higher casting rate than steel. Sales will be direct with payments by check money order or paypal.

My attention has been on minie' moulds as of late as I'm trying to find a inexpensive 2nd source other than Lee (i.e under $100.) The New Style Williams bullets & Gardner bullet both require a third piece, and so far the prices I've been getting would require a $150 price tag per mould which is way too high. An experimental conical revolver mold is also being considered.

The proof of concept work last summer suggests that a 200 gr. Wilkinson design would work well with 10 gr. charges have low recoil and be very accurate. The main advantage of such a bullet would not be at 25 yards, but at 50 yards were RB drift starts to become an issue. This would be done as either a four or six cavity mold.

Thanks:

Greg Edington

Mansionyac
01-27-2009, 09:20 AM
Greg, I'm currently using the Wilkinson mark III with a six o'clock hold on a clay at 50 yards, with 57.5 of 3F. How far off do you think a Mark IV will be from this with a similar charge? When can I order?

Mike McDaniel
01-27-2009, 09:39 AM
Gary:
If you do a revolver mould, please count me in. Thanks.

Mike McDaniel

Tom Magno, 9269V
01-27-2009, 10:49 AM
Count me in for a revolver mould too - 6 cavity preferred. Size of the round dropped would have to be .456-.457. Any smaller would not work in my gun.

Mansionyac
03-09-2009, 12:17 PM
Greg, any word on the Mark IV mould?