Henry Rifle in NYS?

[matt]

Now that we in NYS are to be limited to only 7 rounds how will this affect any skirmishes held in NYS as far the henry goes?
Matt

[John Holland]

Matt - I just re-read "S 37. Subdivision 22 of section 265.00 as amended" of the new NYS Law and still can't make much out of it. It will take a Philadelphia lawyer to decipher it into language suitable for the common man. A friend recently called the NY State Police for a ruling on a M-94 Winchester rifle with a full length tube magazine, and even they said they had no idea if it was going to be illegal or not.

JDH

[Rich Foster]

I would not bet my money on it but I thought they mention only 7 rounds in guns made with detachable magazines. Rich

[matt]

All guns can now only be loaded with 7 rounds whether fixed ,detachable or tubular. I do think they have an exemption if you are at a range. But the rub is that the henry holds more than 10 rounds and the only exemption for more than 10 rounds is .22 rf tubular magazines. So we in NYS when it comes to henry's will have 3 choices as I read the Law. Sell the rifle, permanently modify the Tubular magazine to 10 rounds(if owned before 1-15-13 10 round mags can be owned) or do nothing and take the risk of being a criminal. There is an exemption for C and R guns as far as magazines but the magazines have to be registered.

People have not even come to realize how this law is going to affect law abiding gun owners in NYS. Many felt since I dont shoot "Assault Rifles" I am good, but here we have Pistol caliber lever action rifles affected as well as many others.
Matt

[Maillemaker]

For questions of law, the place to start is with the State Attorney General. The police cannot be counted on to know the law nor are they responsible for or required to give you a correct answer.

Write to the attorney general, get an answer in writing back.

Keep a copy of your response with you when you shoot your gun.

Steve

[mike davenport]

Way back when, the Henry (as we know it) was caught up in the ban. It had to have an exception in order to be imported.

[Rich Foster]

After reading the NY SAFE ACT dated going in effect 1-15-14. If and I say If the Modern Henry Rifle or any other repeating rifle was grandfathered under 1994 LEGISLATION which indicates certain firearms magazines that exceed 10 rounds they must discarded or sold to a license dealer or sold to a out of state purchaser. the only exceptions are curios or relics with large capacity magazines. Looks like there might be a problem owning a Henry much less shooting one in NY. Rich

[John Holland]

I believe it may be time for the N-SSA to revisit separate Spencer Team Matches.

This concept was presented to the Board by AC Baird some years ago with limited support, but not enough to pass at that time. I feel that since then, the "Henry Team Match" entries have declined enough to warrant the Spencer aficionados to have their own team match. This could be done by simply grouping them together at the right end of the Henry Match firing line and concurrently fire the same targeting as the Henry teams, on the same tower commands. I'll bet we would have enough interest to get it started! The cost of a single set of medals to start with is negligible.

Just my 2 cents!

John Holland

[R Filbert]

John I like that idea! Been wanting to get our guys in a repeater match for quite a while - And most of them want Spencers . I think what on youre mind is a good idea.

[Ron/The Old Reb]

If I lived in New York state I would be looking for anorther state to move to.

[matt]

Maillemaker,
Writing to the current Attorney General of NYS about firearms questions is an absolute waste of time. He is just as anti-gun and maybe more than the current Governor. Problem is no one including those who have to enforce it really know what is legal and what is illegal. Is an M-1 en bloc a ammunition feeding device? or does it just hold the ammo? If it is ruled to be an ammunition feeding device then a stock Garand would be an assault weapon and have to be registered but grind off the bayonet lug and only load 7 rounds you are ok? provided you can prove you owned the 8 round enblocs before 1-15-13. 1919 and 1917 semi auto Brownings now can only be feed with 7 rounds at a time and since the semi auto versions are not 50 years or older the belts they use cannot be registered even if they are 50 years or older. So since Henry's can take more than 10 rounds how would you permanently modify them to only hold 10 and still have the magazine function at all?
Matt

[Muley Gil]

If the idiots insist on enforcing these laws as written, M-1 Garand clips can be modified. Some states already have hunting laws on the books that limit the number of rounds that can be carried in the firearm. I have seen M-1 clips modified for 5 rounds.

Tubular magazine shotguns can be plugged to only hold two (2) rounds, per Federal waterfowl hunting laws. I imagine a Henry could be plugged as well.

Stupid? Heck yeah, but we do what we have to do.

[matt]

Muley,
How would you plug the Henry magazine? Remember it loads from the front of the magazine not from the receiver.The only way is to totally and permanently block the magazine so it cant be used turning it into a single shot lever action. So in effect they have outlawed them in NYS as they cant be modified and still work as a tubular magazine fed lever action rifle.
Matt

[Maillemaker]

Writing to the current Attorney General of NYS about firearms questions is an absolute waste of time.

While I sympathize with those of you in anti-gun states, all I'm saying is that dropping by your local police station is not guaranteed to get you a correct or binding response as to what is legal and what is not, and if you go by their advice you may find yourself in trouble with the law with little recourse.

You may not like the answer your AG gives you, but they are the chief law enforcement office in the state. If you have a question about the laws of your state the place to ask is the office of the Attorney General.

Steve

[John Holland]

The NY AG Office is not providing any clarifications at this time.

JDH

[Muley Gil]

Could not an aluminum or plastic plug be made up? Load seven rounds, insert the plug, and then swivel the follower in place.

You would probably have to count your rounds to avoid jamming the action with the plug.

It is a real crock that a law like this was ever passed to begin with.

[Lou Lou Lou]

There is an exemption for shooting events at ranges. You can load 10 rounds in a removable magazine. The enbloc clip is not a removable magazine. Much controversy

[Ron/The Old Reb]

I'll bet all the bank robbers, drug dealers, gang bangers. rapist, and home grown wacko,s are checking with the AG and local police to fine out what is legal and what's not.:mad:

[Maillemaker]

The NY AG Office is not providing any clarifications at this time.

Then the question is really unanswerable until such time as they are able to do so.

Most likely, the law was thrown together in such a hurry that the AG doesn't understand it yet themselves. Heck, the law was passed so quickly they forgot to exempt law-enforcement from the magazine capacity limitations.

Until the AG can provide answers to questions about the law, anything is speculation.

My hope is this gets taken to court.

Steve

[John Holland]

At a gun show last weekend, here in NY State, there were 3 State Police representatives at the show to answer questions regarding the new NY law. As a test, one of the dealers asked the same question to each of the State Police rep's, independently of each other. Would you be shocked to hear that he received 3 radically different answers to the same question? OK, maybe that was a "dirty trick", but it sure proved the point!

We now have an attorney in western NY preparing to file a pro bono class action lawsuit on behalf of the law abiding citizens of New York State.

JDH

[Maillemaker]

At a gun show last weekend, here in NY State, there were 3 State Police representatives at the show to answer questions regarding the new NY law. As a test, one of the dealers asked the same question to each of the State Police rep's, independently of each other. Would you be shocked to hear that he received 3 radically different answers to the same question? OK, maybe that was a "dirty trick", but it sure proved the point!

Nope, not shocked at all.


We now have an attorney in western NY preparing to file a pro bono class action lawsuit on behalf of the law abiding citizens of New York State.

Fantastic news.

Steve

[matt]

Lawsuit has been filed by NYSRPA, NRA-ILA and AR15.com challenging on the 10th and 14th amendments to the Constitution. Also for any mag over 10 rounds to be legal it has to be permanently modified so a removable plug would not work for the henry.
Matt

[Blair]

Sorry,
Being a long time citizen of the State of FL., I can't sympathies with the citizens of the State of NY.
You all brought this on to yourselves. With the folks you have Elected into Office.
Now with that being said... What NY State adopts, all too often becomes other States Laws.
Should those Laws adopted be un-decipherable by the local LEO agency persons within that State... perhaps the residence of that States, should see about replacing their 'Elected' Officials?
Just a suggestion on my part, but, then I will never be in a position to call NY State My home!
As a Floridian, What do I know, or care about NY politics?
Blair

[Jack C., 69th NY]

Sorry,
You all brought this on to yourselves. With the folks you have Elected into Office.
Blair

Hey Blair,
Don't paint everyone with the same brush. I have lived my entire life in New York and I for one, did not bring this upon myself or on anyone else. As a matter of fact, no one I have ever voted for (except the Bushes and Regan) has ever gotten into any office. There are many New Yorkers as dead set against these laws as any state BUT we are outnumbered. Gov. Cuomo rammed the new law through the Assembly and Senate, without any Republican (mostly suburban and rural districts) input. The liberals got a good feeling out of passing it. Too bad you don't care about us here in New York. Just keep both eyes open, this could (I hope not) happen someday in your neck of the woods. ;)

[Maillemaker]

You all brought this on to yourselves. With the folks you have Elected into Office.

This ignores the huge divide between rural New York and urban New York City.

Steve

[jonniereb]

Sorry, You all brought this on to yourselves. With the folks you have Elected into Office.


I spent the first 22 years of my life in New York State. If there's one thing I learned, it's that as New York City goes, so goes the rest of the state. It doesn't matter how anyone else votes, NYC has the population to drive the rest of the state. So, to say that NY gun owners brought this upon themselves is myopic at best.

I now live in Maryland, where I have lived for the past 13 years. In a very similar fashion, as Baltimore goes, so goes the state of Maryland. It is rare that my vote counts at the state or federal level here, even though I vote in every election and my county is very rural and leans right. The people making the decisions at the state level are almost always not the people I voted for.

Maryland is currently trying to pass restrictive legislation similar to NY, although they are at least allowing dissenting voices to be heard. I have contacted my representatives from my district, who I did vote for and who are pro-gun, but they have very little hope of successfully fighting this legislation because they are outnumbered by the larger, more populous, and very left-leaning districts in the state.

My point to all this is that I know it's easy to say that voters bring things on themselves, but I would respectfully suggest that it's not always a fair or accurate assessment.

[Blair]

Hang in there guys... one day you all will realize what the 'Bill of Rights' are all about.
You all wont have to be told or reminded by anybody else throughout the country.
FL. wont tell NY. what they should do, and NY, wont tell GA. what they should do, etc.
Got the idea of what the Bill of Rights are all about yet?

[rkel870]

Can't wait to see what politicians across the country will do if they realize the N-SSA actually shoot cannons and mortars. My word! We in NY are being cursed more and more each day by NYC politicos . My reps and area reps all opposed this new ban but with 65% of the states votes coming fom south of the Tappan Zee, not much chance of overturning or blocking. We have such stupid regulations in place now that there isn't one legal local seller of black powder. I have to go across the state line to Vermont to buy it. If I transport any quantity I'm supposed to dress up my car like a hazard and mark it with LOW EXPLOSIVE signs. I can't be in possession of more than 5 pounds at any one time. If I have an 1858 Remington and powder it has to be listed on my NYS Pistol Permit ( I guess because they are the "weapon of choice" of bank robbers these days. I've lived here all of my life. My family before the revolution. We have lost the state to NYC poiticians who want to be Washington DC politicians and there doesn't seem to be any going back. I'm thinking West Virginia would be a nice place to retire to and spend my retirement and tax dollars there. Besides they were all Union people and I couldn't see myself as a Seccessionist even though two of my great grandfathers fought on the second place team.

[matt]

Blair,
As a New Yorker and a NYC resident I can tell you that what is happening here can happen to you where you live. As people are driven out of NYC they are going to places where right minded people live and they are bringing their screwed up ideas with them. Before you even realize what has happened you are now the minority and have this crap rammed down your throats. You say we deserve this I say no one ever deserves to have their rights taken away from them. Our Constitution is the supreme law of the land but if your elected officials wont stand up for your rights and violate them who is going to protect you. NYC voted for term limits, Bloomberg and the city council changed the law to their benefit in spite of the will of the people. This caused me to vote for democrat for the first time in my life. My 2 state Senators one repub and one demorat both voted for the draconian gun laws just passed I would not vote for the demorat anyway so it is a waste of time to write to her and I will not vote for the repub traitor now either. I will campaign for who ever is going to run against him. My congressman who ran as a tea party candidate is now in bed with the demorats and thinks federally that more gun laws are a good thing. He was written to, he responded and then I answered him back again. So please do not think that we deserve to be treated this way. This is my latest response to my Congressman.

Congressman Grim,
The fact that you seem to see no problem with the enactment of the NYSafe Act I find to be disturbing as it is a clear infringement on the Constitution you have sworn to protect and uphold. As you feel NYS is correct in passing this I have no confidence that on the Federal level you will stand up for the law abiding gun owners of your district, and that you will vote to pass laws that infringe on my rights as well as everyone else in your district. I have voted for you twice for your present position as the Representitive of my district if you choose to run for reelection I will not be casting a vote for you. I will add you to State Senators Lanza and Savino as people that do not hold individual rights in high regard. I am disappointed in you as a Marine and as a Law Enforcement Officer.


Matthew R Mackintosh

[Muley Gil]

Blair,

Unfortunately, Florida could well turn out be as bad as New York, considering how many liberal Yankees move there after retirement.

I have friends from Oregon who say that Oregon and Washington State used to be good places to be until all of the Californians moved in.

Why people move from some place they say they don't like and then try to make it just like where they left is beyond me. :mad:

[R. McAuley 3014V]

Back in 1978, the late Larry McDonald (GA-Dem) came to my college campaigning for congress, and as he was coming up the stairs in the student center, he offered out his hand along with a greeting "Hi, I'm Larry McDonald and I'm running for Congress, and would appreciate your vote!" I looked at him rather steely-eyed and contemptuously replied "I don't vote for Socialist-Democrats!" Larry nearly choked on his words and missed the last riser on the steps and nearly fell back down the stairs, only to regain his composure enough to respond that he'd have run as a Republican if he though he could have been elected. As some of you know, Larry was aboard a Korean commercial airliner bound for Seoul that was shot down by the Russians over international waters after it had wandered only briefly into Soviet air space!

And though there was formerly a popular poem about Yankees coming south in flocks and droves... only getting a little six foot plot... given the current laws in NYS, you are certainly welcomed to come settle in Georgia.

[RSiegel]

Reading the New York State law section 265 under definitions, paragraph 22. "Assault weapon" means, sub paragraph g. provided however that such term ( "term" goes back to what was defined in the paragraphs above as assault weapons) does not include, sub-sub-paragraph (i) any rifle, shotgun or pistol that (a) is manually operated by bolt, pump, lever or slide action

Read the actual law in detail but I think that the above sub paragraph means that lever action rifles are not assault rifles under this law. Assault rifles are prohibited from having more then seven rounds of ammunition but since the definition of an assault rifle does not include lever action rifles, the Henry or 1873 Winchesters are not effected by the law.

Rich

[matt]

Rich,
No magazine detachable or not can be loaded with more than 7 rounds of ammunition. Any magazine except .22rf tubular magazines and those that are for C and R weapons(the magazines must be registered) that can hold more than 10 rounds is now illegal. They make no distinction as far as magazines (detachable fixed or tubular) go its the round capacity that matters. The so called assault rifles have nothing to do with magazine capacity its is a totally definition. With NYS law the devil is in the details, that is where they nail you. By definition if you have a locking knife that you can grasp with one hand and snap open with the flick of your wrist that is a gravity knife because you are using centrifical force to open the knife. The whole point of this thread was to point out that by reading what is written into the law the Henry rifle has been outlawed due to its magazine since it cannot be permanently modified to accept 7 rounds and still act as repeater. This is the section of PL 265.00 paragraph 23 taken from the official NYS penal law website.

* 23. "Large capacity ammunition feeding device" means a magazine, belt, drum, feed strip, or similar device, that (a) has a capacity of, or that can be readily restored or converted to accept, more than ten rounds of ammunition, or (b) contains more than seven rounds of ammunition, or (c) is obtained after the effective date of the chapter of the laws of two thousand thirteen which amended this subdivision and has a capacity of, or that can be readily restored or converted to accept, more than seven rounds of ammunition; provided, however, that such term does not include an attached tubular device designed to accept, and capable of operating only with, .22 caliber rimfire ammunition or a feeding device that is a curio or relic. A feeding device that is a curio or relic is defined as a device that (i) was manufactured at least fifty years prior to the current date, (ii) is only capable of being used exclusively in a firearm, rifle, or shotgun that was manufactured at least fifty years prior to the current date, but not including replicas thereof, (iii) is possessed by an individual who is not prohibited by state or federal law from possessing a firearm and (iv) is registered with the division of state police pursuant to subdivision sixteen-a of section 400.00 of this chapter, except such feeding devices transferred into the state may be registered at any time, provided they are registered within thirty days of their transfer into the state. Notwithstanding paragraph (h) of subdivision twenty-two of this section, such feeding devices may be transferred provided that such transfer shall be subject to the provisions of section 400.03 of this chapter including the check required to be conducted pursuant to such section. * NB Effective April 15, 2013Matt

[RSiegel]

Oh, good point Matt.

Rich

[hp gregory]

any of you guys ever watch the movie ESCAPE FROM NEW YORK looks like thats where things are headed. i would hurry up and leave before they build the walls. just make sure you leave the unarmed liberals behind so they can pay all the taxes and support the muggers who will still have guns no matter what feel good gun laws they pass.the constitution doesnt say what color or how many rounds a gun should shoot. its says we have a right to bear arms PERIOD!!!!

hp

[RangerFrog]

any of you guys ever watch the movie ESCAPE FROM NEW YORK looks like thats where things are headed. i would hurry up and leave before they build the walls. just make sure you leave the unarmed liberals behind so they can pay all the taxes and support the muggers who will still have guns no matter what feel good gun laws they pass.the constitution doesnt say what color or how many rounds a gun should shoot. its says we have a right to bear arms PERIOD!!!!

hp

Amen and amen! I have found our blue-wearing brethren to be (by and large) fine folks, even if they do talk kinda funny! We can probably find room for more true believers as long as you leave the Progressives, Commies, Pinkos, et al somewhere North of the Mason-Dixon Line. We already have more than enough infiltrators here now! With peace for all and ill will toward none,

The Frog