1861 Colt Signature Sieries .58 cal rifle parts?

[jek279]

My hammer is to close and rubs the lockplate keeping it from snapping a cap. I was told that a P53 Enfield would have its internals enterchange with the colt. So I bought a tumbler for an Enfield and low and behold, it is to large and won't fit through the lockplate and the threads in the Enfield tumbler are different than the colt. Any one know where I can get parts. And yes I have tried Chiappa and about everyone else. I need your help!

[RaiderANV]

Did you try shimming the lock and or hammer out away from the nipple. Did you call Lodgewood for the correct parts? 262-473-5444

[jek279]

Is there a specific type of shim

[RaiderANV]

Not really,,,,,,I've used matchbox covers, thin wood and metal to shim the lock out ah wee tad from the lock mortise so the hammer doesn't drag and nipple lines up better. I've cut up feeler gauges to make shims for the hammer. Depends on how far ya gotta go as to what ya use. I just go to digger in an old tool box or scrap bin in the work shop for whatever I run across. After shimming the lock you DO NOT need to tighten the lock screws down til both sides of the stock meet. I only snug them slightly.

[jek279]

I don't need to shim the lock, but the hammer away from the tumbler so the hammer doesn't rub the lock plate. But if you shim, you still have the shim rubbing the lockplate because you tighten down the hammer screw sandwiching the shim. The square part if the tumbler needs to protrude out farther past the lock plate. So, unless I weld, which I don't want to do, a new tumbler may fix the prob.

[rachbobo]

[QUOTE=jek279;27910]I don't need to shim the lock, but the hammer away from the tumbler so the hammer doesn't rub the lock plate.

If I understand you correctly your problem is that the hammer is thicker that the amount of the square part of the tumbler that sticks out

Measure exactly how far out the square part of the tumbler sticks out from the side of the lockplate then measure how thick that part of the hammer is that fits over it.
File or grind the inside of the hammer till it is thinner than the protruding square part.
That way once the screw pushes the hammer all the way in there is still a gap.
You can also file away the face of the hammer where the screw meets it if need be.

Bill Cheek
Cockade Rifles

[jek279]

I apologize, maybe I haven't given all the best description. The square part of the tumbler does not stick out past the lock plate so filing the Hammer won't fix the problem.

[R. McAuley 3014V]

If I understand your problem, I still suspect your best bet is making a shim, and one most likely placed on the square portion of the tumbler shank that fits both the square shank yet is round on the outside (much like a washer) a little wider than the round portion of the tumbler shank that normally protrudes beyond the plate that will allow just enough threads in the tumbler to tighten the hammer screw to hold it in-place, yet, filling the space between the lock-plate and inside face of the hammer sufficient to clear. Your dimensions will likely vary from what is given here (measured from an original Enfield tumbler), but the length of the tumbler shank is about 0.573", which when it is flush with the inside lock face the round part of the shank protrudes through the plate (0.16" thick) and about 0.063" beyond the plate. The square shaft portion is only about 0.35" long, which when the hammer is installed leaves roughly a 0.058" gap between the inside face of the hammer and the outside surface of the lockplate. In your instance, the round shank of your tumbler doesn't extend that far out, and spreading the metal to make the hammer pall hole size smaller won't improve matters because the square shank is not tapered. If not a brass shim about 0.06" thick to keep the hammer from dragging on the face of the lock-plate, if you follow Bill's advice below, you might be able to add some metal to the round part of the tumbler shank to extend beyond the face of the lock-plate to create the necessary "gap". Alternatively, Rob Lewis (with Tri-L Machine) could build-up the tumbler shank using colbalt, or perhaps Charlie Hahn could machine you a new match-grade tumbler?

Likely you will not find any replacement parts for the Colt Signature Series replicas because the parts were made in Italy (possibly by Euroarms) and shipped to the U.S. where the guns were assembled under a special license by Colt "in name only". Colt does not warranty these guns because Colt didn't make them.

[Richard Hill]

You need to make the square hole in the hammer smaller. Get a tool called a "drift" or a "punch" with the business end about 1/8" or slightly more in diameter. Place the hammer, inside surface up, on a HARD surface such as a vice and use the punch to dent the hammer on each side of the hole. Go easy on the dents, and try the hammer on the lock. The best time to stop is when you have to tap the hammer on to the tumbler to get it to line up with the nipple. The hammer will be VERY snug on the tumbler by now and may be difficult to remove. To get the hammer off again strip the lock of all parts, remove the hammer screw, and use a punch that will just fit into the hammer screw hole and tap the punch to push the tumbler out of the hammer.

[rachbobo]

Another way of doing that is by welding. Before you laugh, hear me out.
All you need is a 12 volt car battery, a few alligator clips, a vise, some 12 gauge copper wire a pair of vise grips and some thin metal wire.
Chuck up the hammer in the vise. connect the ground terminal of the battery to the vise.
Connect the copper wire to the positive terminal and then to the vice grips. Grip a piece of the thin wire in the vice grips and you have a mini welding machine.
Scrape the thin wire inside the hammer where you want to add metal, it will work like a charm.
As a Field Mechanic for Caterpillar Tractor dealers and private contractors I used this many times in the field when I had a loose bore and needed to add metal to tighten it up to install new bushings.
Give it a try on some scrap parts to get the feel of it first.

Bill Cheek
Cockade Rifles
.




You need to make the square hole in the hammer smaller. Get a tool called a "drift" or a "punch" with the business end about 1/8" or slightly more in diameter. Place the hammer, inside surface up, on a HARD surface such as a vice and use the punch to dent the hammer on each side of the hole. Go easy on the dents, and try the hammer on the lock. The best time to stop is when you have to tap the hammer on to the tumbler to get it to line up with the nipple. The hammer will be VERY snug on the tumbler by now and may be difficult to remove. To get the hammer off again strip the lock of all parts, remove the hammer screw, and use a punch that will just fit into the hammer screw hole and tap the punch to push the tumbler out of the hammer.

[Maillemaker]

Just be very careful direct-shorting a battery. The wire ought to melt before anything bad happens, but the battery can explode on you if your wire holds up.

Steve

[rachbobo]

Just be very careful direct-shorting a battery. The wire ought to melt before anything bad happens, but the battery can explode on you if your wire holds up.

Steve
Thats why I said use a very thin wire. If you are not mechanically inclined then just ignore my post.
Darwin Awards are given to those who lack the Smarts to think the project through.

Bill Cheek
Cockade Rifles

[jek279]

The hammer fits over the round part of the tumbler shaft and should stop moving inward when it comes in contact with the square part of the tumbler. The square part of the tumbler does not protrude past the lock plate therefore the hammer will not tighten up because it is not in contact with that square part of the tumbler. The only way I see to fix it is to weld the tumbler next to the square part of the tumbler and then file it to specs. Is this not right?

[R. McAuley 3014V]

The hammer should only fit the "square" end of the tumbler shaft or shank, which is threaded on the inside for the hammer screw. The "square" portion of the tumbler shaft terminates into a round shank that then terminates at the portion of the tumbler inside the lock that engages the sear, sear spring, stirrup, and mainspring. The "round" portion of the tumbler fits a round hole in the lock-plate, and should not have any "play" against the inside perpendicular surfaces of that hole. But the round portion of the tumbler shaft should bear against it with close tolerance so to prevent the shaft from warpage or being out of center. Adding new metal to extend this round portion of the tumbler shaft outward, will shift the hammer's position farther away from the face of the lock plate, but not so far out as to cause it to be misaligned with the cone. If the "square" end of the tumbler shaft is not flush with the outside of the hammer face, but is slightly recessed will still allow the hammer screw to be tightened sufficient to hold the hammer in place. All that is being suggested is to "offset" the hammer farther away from the face of the lock-plate so it doesn't rub against it. But we are only talking in thousandths and ten-thousandths of an inch, just enough to free the hammer from being lock-bound.

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii305/rmac1023/tumbler_zps19f0b41c.jpg

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii305/rmac1023/lockcolor_zps2ad3a880.jpg

[Southron Sr.]

Check with Ken Enger of Chattahoochee Black Powder Arms Company. They sell the replica Colt muskets and they carry spare parts.

Ken Enger
Chattahoochee Black Powder Arms Company
4153 Drew Road
Cumming, GA 30040

Sorry, I don't have his phone number or e-mail address; but you could send him a letter of inquiry.

[jek279]

I guess I should feel terrible. I explained it wrong to all of you. The square part of the tumbler goes in past be lockplate face. In other words, when you put the hammer on, it rubs against the lockplate. I have tried a shim, but the shim rubs the lockplate and hammer and still slows up the hammer. Any advice for that

[R. McAuley 3014V]

I guess I should feel terrible. I explained it wrong to all of you. The square part of the tumbler goes in past be lockplate face. In other words, when you put the hammer on, it rubs against the lockplate. I have tried a shim, but the shim rubs the lockplate and hammer and still slows up the hammer. Any advice for that

Either you need a new tumbler or have someone (like Rob Lewis) repair your existing tumbler. I recommend Rob because he rebuilt the sear for a P/60 Liege made Enfield that had broken and there were no spare parts available. He welds with cobalt so the repair is usually stronger than the original. So if Ken Enger doesn't have any parts and you cannot find another tumbler that can be made to fit your lock, rebuilding that part is probably your only other option short of relegating the musket to life as a wall-hanger. Good luck

[Blair]

Perhaps??? One, or someone, may need to conceder the Special Model type Colt 'Rifle Muskets' used a thicker lock plate than the basic English made P-1853's?
I know, I am just stupid when things like this come up. But a tumbler will not interchange between a '61 or '63 Special Model and an Enfield! (any model or Pattern Enfield because of the different thichnesses of the lock plate)

[jek279]

I am a welder, but heat is my concern. I have done this before and a guess I will do it again. I will add just a little JB weld to the square part of the tumbler next to the round part and then file off the excess. I only need about .010 more space for he hammer to clear. Worst case senario I will have to Tig weld it.

[RaiderANV]

I'll promise ya the JB Weld won't work. Been there many moons ago and tried it every way ya could and it comes right off during firing. The shock/vibration even if ya rough up the tumbler surface before you place the JB Weld.

[red leg]

Thank you Southern Sr.-Yes i have lots of complete Locks , internal lock parts and other Colt parts forsale. Ken Enger ,1795 Ivey Trace, Cumming, Ga 30041 or kenger@bellsouth.net or call me at 770 844 1351.Just let me know what you need and i will give you a price. Some Colt parts are interchangable with the old Parker Hales muskets ie Main spring, Sear spring and Tumbler. The main spring fits perfect, the Sear spring also but you must use the original Parker Hale Sear spring scew, The Colt tumbler works great The hole in the lock plate fits perfect . However, the square
hammer bolt must be reduced a few thousants to fit the hole in the PH Hammer and a Colt hammer screw must replace the Parker Hale hammer screw.Colt screw threads are different than the PH .

[R. McAuley 3014V]

If I understand your problem, I still suspect your best bet is making a shim, and one most likely placed on the square portion of the tumbler shank that fits both the square shank yet is round on the outside (much like a washer) a little wider than the round portion of the tumbler shank that normally protrudes beyond the plate that will allow just enough threads in the tumbler to tighten the hammer screw to hold it in-place, yet, filling the space between the lock-plate and inside face of the hammer sufficient to clear. Your dimensions will likely vary from what is given here (measured from an original Enfield tumbler), but the length of the tumbler shank is about 0.573", which when it is flush with the inside lock face the round part of the shank protrudes through the plate (0.16" thick) and about 0.063" beyond the plate. The square shaft portion is only about 0.35" long, which when the hammer is installed leaves roughly a 0.058" gap between the inside face of the hammer and the outside surface of the lockplate. In your instance, the round shank of your tumbler doesn't extend that far out, and spreading the metal to make the hammer pall hole size smaller won't improve matters because the square shank is not tapered. If not a brass shim about 0.06" thick to keep the hammer from dragging on the face of the lock-plate, if you follow Bill's advice below, you might be able to add some metal to the round part of the tumbler shank to extend beyond the face of the lock-plate to create the necessary "gap". Alternatively, Rob Lewis (with Tri-L Machine) could build-up the tumbler shank using colbalt, or perhaps Charlie Hahn could machine you a new match-grade tumbler?

Likely you will not find any replacement parts for the Colt Signature Series replicas because the parts were made in Italy (possibly by Euroarms) and shipped to the U.S. where the guns were assembled under a special license by Colt "in name only". Colt does not warranty these guns because Colt didn't make them.

Blair, perhaps an original Enfield tumbler won't interchange with a Colt 1861 Special Model but both the Enfield tumbler, like the M1861 and Colt pattern tumblers, are similar enough for this purpose. As for the dimensions given above, this was merely for comparison sake hence what was noted is shown in bold text above. As for the Enfield illustration, it was added for clarity because it did not seem like everyone here was communicating. And I did not know that Ken had any spare parts... good thing he does, and it is also nice to know that some Parker-Hale internals will interchange, just as I would imagine that some original Enfield parts will interchange with the original Colt, Amoskeag, and LG&Y. After all, it was Lamson of LG&Y who purchased the Robbins & Lawrence Armory and its machinery in 1858, taking over from Samuel Robbins who had continued there filling the order for rifles after the Robbins & Lawrence partnership was dissolved in January 1857. That Lamson owned the R&L machinery used to build the Windsor Enfields, probably explains why Colt had to go buy Enfield parts made in England rather than make them himself.

[jek279]

I have tried the enfield tumbler and the round part of the tumbler will not fit through the lock plate. I hope Ken can help me.

[singleshot]

Put a shim between the hammer and the end of the tumbler where the hammer fits onto. That's the easiest and cheapest way out.

[Bruce Cobb 1723V]

YES,YES, Take your lock with hammer off to the oldest hardware store you have locally. They have zillions of washer types. Look for one that fits over the tumblers shank. Be more concerned with the thickness not the diameter. No one has yet to tell you the shank is tapered a bit. To keep the hammer tight and just off the washers : make a shim from writing paper. Cut it 3/16" x 3/4". Place it over the shank and fold it evenly over the hole. Put the hammer on and cut out whats over the hole. Put your screw in. Too loose add another paper shim ............... you may not even need any washers and just do the paper trick first ....... Paper has been used by master gunsmiths for hundreds of years....... Tried it, done it. A holder of a few patents A true believer in "Make it Stupid Simple"