New Pedersoli Muskets

[William Schoenfeld, 1386]

I have not heard anything about these new muskets and I was wondering if anyone has purchased one of them and could give us an idea of how they shoot. Like to hear more about them? Powder charge, type of minnie to use in them, etc.:D
Thanks in advance,

Dutch Schoenfeld
Mosby's Rangers

[Damon]

Hi,
I have purchased a Mississippi rifle. Blair is helping me work through a few manufacturing issues with Pedersoli at the moment.

Damon

[medic302]

i have the 3 band enfield. so far good luck with it but i haven't shot it since i bedded the barrel, too darn cold these last few days... oh and it gets dark at 1700 doesnt' help either.

[Damon]

i have the 3 band enfield. so far good luck with it but i haven't shot it since i bedded the barrel, too darn cold these last few days... oh and it gets dark at 1700 doesnt' help either.
What is the fit and finish like on the Enfield?

[Blair]

Dutch,

Here are two videos that were done by Balazs Nemeth.(aka, Space Cowboy)
One video he is sooting the two band Navy Enfield, the other is shooting the '61 Springfield.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yf8sGsboTdI&list=UUefQw7bLRPKSG-qx9dJroew&index=19 (wlmailhtml:{95813624-B5F8-487F-9E0F-002742917309}mid://00000026/!x-usc:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yf8sGsboTdI&list=UUefQw7bLRPKSG-qx9dJroew&index=19)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWkDPscNyD4&list=UUefQw7bLRPKSG-qx9dJroew&index=86

I hope you find this helpful
Blair

[Maillemaker]

I believe Medic posted a bunch of pictures also.

Steve

[Blair]

Steve,

You had furnished both of these videos on this forum in past threads. I thank you for doing that. as well as anyothers who may have posted info and/or photos.
For some reason I could not copy and paste these videos onto this thread. ??
So, I got permision from Balazs through Pedersoli to re post them.
I hope everyone will find them helpful,
Blair

[Maillemaker]

They are publicly available on youtube - no need to ask permission from anyone just link away! :D

Steve

[Blair]

Steve,

I don't use or belong to YouTube.
Maybe that's why I couldn't cut/copy and/or paste? I have no clue why?
I thank anyone who has had anything constructive to add to the subject.
My best,
Blair

[Maillemaker]

Hi Blair,

You don't have to "belong" to YouTube (or log in) to watch videos on YouTube. Just go to http://www.youtube.com and try 'er out!

Once you have found a video you like, you can copy and paste the URL from your browser. You can also click on the "share" menu and you will be given the same URL that you can copy/paste.

It's just like copying and pasting the URL to any web page.

Steve

[Blair]

Hi Steve,

Yes, I have tried all of the things you have suggested.
If I have the info in my e-mail box, I can do just as you suggest. However, if I try to do this from one forum/web sight to another.... no luck. I can't say why, and my computer isn't offering any reason why. Trust me, I have tried!
With all of this said, this is not what this subject is about

[medic302]

What is the fit and finish like on the Enfield?

in a word, excellent.

[Damon]

Pitty the Mississippi is not as good as the Enfield. Hopefully Pedersoli can fix the issues.

[William Schoenfeld, 1386]

Blair,
I have viewed his you tube videos and they are great however I would like to hear from other members who have one and how do they shoot. No better experts than our own people. It seems as if we were waiting for them and then it fell off the map. Also like to know about the others that Pedersoli has in their Silver Line too. They look very good but how are they hitting out of the box? What is the right bullet and powder charge for them?
Dutch

[Maillemaker]

William:

Medic has posted the results of his shooting on this BBS, along with a picture of his target.

Edit: Here is the post (near bottom of page):

http://www.n-ssa.org/vbforum/showthread.php?3618-Pedersoli-Civil-War-Muzzleloaders/page32


Steve

[medic302]

i've bedded it since i shot that target, the reason i did so was because when i shot that target it was a nice 70 degree day. the next time i shot was 40 degree day and all my shots were to the right about 3 inches. that's really my only complaint against pedersoli is that they got sloppy with the bedding or rather lack there of. work of advice if you decide to get one, you will need to get the trigger pull lightened considerabley. mine out of the box was 10.5lbs.

[hennigm4]

I just purchased one, the fit etc seems excellent, mine is a tower musketoon. Ill try it tomorrow. One ? I have is about the front sight. How do I get a taller front sight on it? My previous ones came with the tall sigh. Is there a company that does this?

[Blair]

medic302,

Pedersoli has been notified of the heavy trigger pull. They are working on improving this.
One thing folks need to be aware of is that they want to make arms that are safe for the reenacter as well as the competition shooter. They are looking to bring the trigger pull down to around 5 to 6 lbs. which will work better for both sport and hobby.
Blair

[hennigm4]

I just purchased one, the fit etc seems excellent, mine is a tower musketoon. Ill try it tomorrow. One ? I have is about the front sight. How do I get a taller front sight on it? My previous ones came with the tall sigh. Is there a company that does this?

Took the tower 1861 musketoon to the range today, shooring improved minis, 40 grns. From a bench at 50 yards not all that impresive, I was using bulletes from 5 years ago...so not an accurate guage for accuracy. Trigger pull was ok, only trouble i noticed was oil leaking through where the barrel is screwed to the breach, at least I hope its joined there or I have a crack....This disturbed me a bit, but I suspect a little oil creeping through the threads is normal, If I notice smoke I will be concerned.

Overall I fired 25 shots, bench and standing, The Carbine is light compared to my Richmond carbine I had. Once I get a taller front sight, bed the stock I think it has potential. I think its a good deal, 775 from Taylors. I have never had bad luck with Pedersoli guns.

Mike

[Damon]

The attched picture is meant to show how the trigger guard plate is not flush with the stock on my Mississippi rifle. This means you can feel the two edges when holding the wrist of the stock. Blair has been of great assistance in talking to Pedersoli about this and the hammer alignment and hopefully I will have some news from Pedersoli about the stock and the trigger guard plate soon.

[Maillemaker]

i noticed was oil leaking through where the barrel is screwed to the breach, at least I hope its joined there or I have a crack....This disturbed me a bit, but I suspect a little oil creeping through the threads is normal, If I notice smoke I will be concerned.

I have heard others report this. It's likely just an artifact of a screwed-in breach. It will probably stop doing this after the crack gets plugged.

Steve

[rachbobo]

I have heard others report this. It's likely just an artifact of a screwed-in breach. It will probably stop doing this after the crack gets plugged.

Steve

I was rebuilding an original 1842 Springfield a while back. After I removed the breechplug I shined a light down the bore to inspect it.
Nothing, the breech was still plugged with something. Not wanting to get the crud on the breech threads I tried tapping it out from the rear and found it was solid.
WTF? so I tapped it out from the muzzle and out dropped an Indian Head Penny.
The face with the date faced the powder charge and was burned away but matching others the back side told me what it was.
Someone way back when filed the diameter to fit and act as a gas seal.
It must have worked because there was no sign of any fouling on the threads.
I still have the penny and probably will mount it on the stock sometime.

Bill Cheek
Cockade Rifles

[Southron Sr.]

Years ago I purchased a "New in Box" Parker-Hale Naval Rifle. Carried it to the range and after I got all of the preserving grease and oil out of the barrel, fired a few caps and then loaded the fun and fired it. Then after two or three shots, my next load was a "Dud."

Pulled the bullet and charge and noticed that the powder was oil contaminated. Ran a few more patches thru the barrel and fired a few more rounds until I got another "Dud" load. Pulled the load and again, the powder charge was contaminated with oil.

Here is what was going on:

When the barrel heated up, the oil in the threaded joint where the breech section was attached to the barrel heated up and seeped into the chamber-killing the powder charge.

I quit having "Dud" loads when there was no longer enough oil left to contaminate my powder charge enough to kill it.

[Smosin]

I bought a new Pedersoli P-1853 Enfield 3 band rifle from Cabelas in the early fall, and couldn't be happier. I've fired more than 100 minies in it and find that the accuracy is very good, and the sights are properly calibrated, with no need for a replacement taller front sight, at least at 50 and 100 m. This with two different wt minies and a few different powder charges. The more or less service load with 60 gr Goex fffg and either a 460 grain Lyman o/s minie or 510 gr n/s, are dead on at 100 yards. Also seems to like the Lyman 405 gr. blue-grey target minie with 40-42 grains of 3fg.
I also had oil seepage thru the breech threads at first, but this has stopped as far as I can tell.
What I'd really like to know is how the stock is finished. It appears to be some kind of thin satin varnish, nicely done, but I've not tried to find out by removing a patch. Been too busy shooting. Who can tell, it might actually be an oil finish, something like tung or linseed? If it's varnish, I'd like to strip it off and use a good stock oil.
So far, I've not felt the need to glass bed the stock, but if the zero begins to wander or the groups enlarge more than might be the case with operator error, then I'd consider it.

[hennigm4]

I have heard others report this. It's likely just an artifact of a screwed-in breach. It will probably stop doing this after the crack gets plugged.

Steve

That's good to know. Thanks. Also the musket shoots high a bout 6 inches at 50 yards, and suggestions on doing something to the front sight?? I need to make it taller or replace it.

Thanks,
Mike

[R. McAuley 3014V]

Mike, if you plan to glass-bed the barrel, recommend you do that first, before altering the sights. As the tang of many of the new replicas is tightened to a point that the tang is below the wood, if while in the process of bedding the barrel, the tang screw is not re-tightened to the same depth, and is tightened but left slightly higher (i.e. flush with the stock), this may in fact negate the need to adjust or replace the front sight?

[Southron Sr.]

I really don't know how Pedersoli finishes their gunstocks. Here is what I can tell you about stock finishes:

Back at Springfield Armory during the "Late Unpleasantness Between the States" after the gunstocks were fully carved by the carving machines, the stocks were lightly sanded and then dipped into a vat of boiling Linseed Oil for a minute and then pulled out. They were then set aside to completely dry. After they were dry, the stocks were assembled into completed rifle-muskets.

The "modern" way to do wooden gunstocks is that after they are fully carved and sanded, then they are hung from hooks on an overhead conveyor belt that carries them into the "Finish Room." The stocks are charged with a Negative charge of electricity while the room's atomsphere is saturated with the "Finish Mist" that has been charged with a Positive Charge of electricity.

The wooden gun stocks, in effect, act as "Maganets" to draw the floaring molecules of Finish from out of the air by electric attraction to the stock. This produces a very even layer of Finish on the wood.

Then the overhead conveyor belt keeps on going into a room where heat lamps are on both walls on both sides of the conveyor belt. The heat helps dry the Finish on the stock. I believe that Pedersoli is probably using a similar system because these stock finishing systems are economically viable for a manufacturer that has to finish a lot of stocks every day in the factory.

[Blair]

I, personally, don't know what Pedersoli is doing to finish their stocks.
Their fit and finish on the arms they produce are, generally, better than what others have done.
So, instead of speculating, and because the subject has been brought up on this forum, I will ask Pedersoli what they do and use to finish their stocks.
When and if I receive a reply I will post that information on this forum.

(Request for additional info from Pedersoli post just moments ago!)

Blair

[hennigm4]

Mike, if you plan to glass-bed the barrel, recommend you do that first, before altering the sights. As the tang of many of the new replicas is tightened to a point that the tang is below the wood, if while in the process of bedding the barrel, the tang screw is not re-tightened to the same depth, and is tightened but left slightly higher (i.e. flush with the stock), this may in fact negate the need to adjust or replace the front sight?

I did the glass bed last night and willl try what you suggest.

Thanks,

Mike

[Blair]

This is the reply I got from Stefano Pedersoli this morning,

Dear Mr. Taylor,

I try to explain the finishing stock process for the Pedersoli guns :

-first of all It's important to explain that a good finishing process comes from a good polishing process , this is very important to prepare the surface of the wood to be oiled
-the stocks are stored for 24 hours inside a closed room where the temperature and the umidity level are always under controll , here special lights work on the surface of the material stabilizing it.
-the stock is plunged inside a cask full of oil and resin ...... then extracted from the mixture and left to dry.
-when the stock is totally dry , it is plunged in a second cask full of resin ( without oil .... ) and then left to dry.
( the resin is very important to reduce the porosity of the wood ....... )
-all the surface it is now worked with a special abrasive paper ....
-the stock is plunged in a third cask full of oil ( without resin ) for two times .......

Best regards

Stefano Pedersoli

[Pat in Virginia]

I have a Pedersoli Gibbs. I once got a chip on on it that penetrated below the surface finish. Fortunately, it was in just a small place. What I found when I gently, very gently, sanded it down to repair the marred finish, was that the very nice graining and coloration on top of the wood did not carry through to the wood underneath. Now, I like the way my P-Gibbs stock looks and I think the wood is very stable. For a target rifle stable wood is essential. The fact that the stock looks nice is icing on the cake so I'm not complaining, but I did learn something. In another forum (probably the LRML Forum or the MLAGB Forum) you will find a thread on Pedersoli stocks, at least P-Gibbs stocks, you might find interesting.

Based on my experience with my P-Gibbs, I would never jump into stripping a Pedersoli stock without first finding a place where I could remove a small portion of the surface finish and see what was underneath.


Pat in Virginia

[B-Davis]

I cringe thinking about what I am going to ask, but curiosity is killing the cat! I have had several Pedersoli rifles, and all of them have been superior firearms. Since Pedersoli is trying to be as accurate and true to the orginials as possible, how close it the machining of the parts to orginal specs?
What I am trying to lead into is, is there any "inter-changeability" From Pedersoli parts to orginals? The reason I ask, is I am trying to find parts to three rifles, one orginal, and two English Parker-Hales. If the parts would be inter-changable, how soon would there be a supply of parts on the market?
I know it is a minor issue, with personal needs, but it may just be of interest to some shooters knowing there may be a viable supply of alternative parts on the market for building/rebuilding of some fire arms.

[Blair]

B-Davis,

Your question is very valid.

It is something I hope to look into as soon as I can get a lock of the various arms for comparison to originals as well as to some of the other like-model repos.
Some originals were not of the interchangeable type. It deepens a great deal on the model/pattern type. However, the new made arms will be interchangeable with each other of the same model/pattern.
I will offer suggestions to Pedersoli to produce extra parts to help build up a surplus. All of this will take some time to evaluate and compare.

[Maillemaker]

My understanding is the Craig Barry had sent an original Enfield Type III to Pedersoli to work from. The new arm is sufficiently different that according to Craig the old Euroarms Lockplate will not, for example, interchange with the new Enfield. Some internal Euroarms parts might interchange, though, he said.

My recollection is that most of the Enfields, particuarly those from the Birmingham makers, were not parts-interchangable. I think the "Enfield" ones may have been but these were Crown arms and likely never used here.

So getting any random original "Enfield" part to fit a Pedersoli will likely be luck and/or require fitting.

By all accounts, the new Pedersoli Enfields are greatly improved in terms of authenticity to Type III Enfields. Some of the noted improvements are:

Correct swivels
Correct barrel bands
Correct lock washers
Correct hammer size
Correct lockplate markings
Correct stock cartouce
Correct proof/caliber markings
Correct weight

Steve

[Blair]

Steve,

You are correct.
With the exception, no one sent Pedersoli any firearm.
Several people did indeed send descriptions and photos. Mr. Barry, was without a doubt, one of these.
I sent a parts assembly, in the form of a very high quality reproduction rear sight made by Rich Cross. It was more historically authentic than what Pedersoli was planning to reproduce. This one item took 6 weeks to get through Italian Customs.
Some repro internal parts of other Enfield type firearms may indeed interchange with the Pedersoli made Enfield's. I hope to find out which of these parts may do just that. But, I wont know until I get a chance to cross check those parts.
I hope this may help clarify any of my earlier statement?

[William Schoenfeld, 1386]

Interesting comments about the extra parts and some things I did not think about. Has anyone shot anything else besides the Enfields? What about the Springfield and the Richmond? Also what type of powder charge are you using and what type of bullets? If I remember correctly Space Cowboy found that the Lyman mold old style worked well in the 2 bander what else works in these muskets.

How is the fit for the Springfield and the Richmond? I think the overall weight for them might be heavier than the Enfields? I know one gent on the team is looking at the muskettoon and he is curious how the loads and bullet style will fit for it.

Thanks in advance,
Dutch

[medic302]

so far in my limited rifle musket shooting experience, i have had the best luck with the lyman OS over 40grs of swiss 3F. i've not chronographed the load, but the load shoots to point of aim and generally shoots a 2" group at 50yrds with my 3 band pedersoli enfield. it does throw the occasional flyer though which i know isn't uncommon for the enfield. but, since i just shot yesterday in the cold the lube the bullets were lubed with was pretty stiff, so i can't help but wonder if that had something to do with the flyers. (any help with that would be apprieciated) i'll also admit i had not weighed the bullets either, nor the charges, which were just thrown with a measure.

one strange thing though, the only bullet that shot to point of aim yesterday was the lyman OS, i also tried the lyman blue-grey target mini, which my pedersoli did not like all, is just sprayed them to the right of the target anybody have any guesses why this bullet shot to the right and the OS shot to the point of aim? i'm clueless on that one.

[hennigm4]

Interesting comments about the extra parts and some things I did not think about. Has anyone shot anything else besides the Enfields? What about the Springfield and the Richmond? Also what type of powder charge are you using and what type of bullets? If I remember correctly Space Cowboy found that the Lyman mold old style worked well in the 2 bander what else works in these muskets.

How is the fit for the Springfield and the Richmond? I think the overall weight for them might be heavier than the Enfields? I know one gent on the team is looking at the muskettoon and he is curious how the loads and bullet style will fit for it.

Thanks in advance,
Dutch

I have the Musketoon, im using improved minies with 42 grns 3f. Intitial shot group at 50 yrds was about 5 inches high, and a large pattern within 5 inches of each other. i attribute this to old bullets, old lube and first time in 6 years I have fired the musket type gun. I finished glass bedding the stock and tang area and will try again this weekend with fresh bullets and lube. So far the fit and finish are very good with the musketoon, I find it much lighter than the Richmond carbine I used to use.

[Southron Sr.]

By 1859 the government Armory at Enfield Lock was making "Fully Interchangeable" P-53 Enfields. By 1861 the London Armory Company was making "Fully Interchangeable" Enfields and later on, BSA in Birmingham. Parts on all of the arms made in different factories should freely interchange.

Two "ear marks" of "Fully Interchangeable" Enfields are: (1) The Escutcheons for the lock mounting screws will have "Rounded" Wing Tips [as opposed to Square Wing Tips for "Non-Interchangeable" Enfields]
(2) The wood screws holding the trigger-guard tang to the stock are "Dome Headed" for Fully-Interchangeable Enfields and "Flat Headed" for "Non-Interchangeable" Enfields.

The problem of using ORIGINAL Enfield parts is that often, Fully Interchangeable Parts have been inadvertently mixed in with Non-Interchangeable parts.

Parts for replica Enfields are another story. I would suggest that when attempting to repair an Euroarms Enfield, use Euroarms parts, etc.

[Damon]

Has anyone handled and compared the updated version of the 1861 Springfield to the older version?

[Southron Sr.]

Space Cowboy has made a video on U-Tube that compares the replica Pedersoli Springfield with his original contractor made Springfield. I don't have the link, but maybe someone on this BB will provide it.

[Blair]

I hope this helps,


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWkDPscNyD4&list=UUefQw7bLRPKSG-qx9dJroew&index=86 (wlmailhtml:{95813624-B5F8-487F-9E0F-002742917309}mid://00000018/!x-usc:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWkDPscNyD4&list=UUefQw7bLRPKSG-qx9dJroew&index=86)