1861 Springfield replica no markings?

[jonk]

Local pawn shop has a replica 1861 springfield. Very good shape, light fingerprint marks on the metal, action is good, wood is perfect, light haze of rust in the barrel but it's just a haze, it should all wipe out. $388. They have it marked "Euro" and ".50 cal" but I'm fairly sure that it's a normal .58. As for Euro, when I saw the tag I figured they meant "Euroarms" but they generally mark their barrels as such (at least that I've seen).

Question: The only mark on the gun is "1861" on the lock plate, and a few oval proofs on the barrel at the wood line. I'm told that Armi Sports often don't have proofs; anything I should look for? While I wasn't in particular looking for another musket, a deal's a deal...

UPDATE: I went back today with a .58 minie to verify it is a .58, a better bore light, and a list of common italian proofs. Turns out it is an Armi Sport. The eagle on the lock was just very lightly stamped and the light in the store isn't so hot. The Armi sport mark was under the barrel, the AC stamp on the side, but at the first look I didn't know that meant Armi Sport. Underneath the BD stamp suggests a 1994 date of manufacture.

Overall, I don't think the gun has been fired much if at all, and the dealer was willing to deal, and sold her for $350 out the door. Armi Sport might not be top of the line but even for a used 1861 with only some minor rust (no pits) below the wood and a dirty but strong bore with no pitting or crown nicks, it seemed pretty fair and worth giving a shot (pun intended).

Upon further inspection getting her home, about the only issue I see is that the .576" ball seems a little loose in the muzzle, but for all I know it's been re-worked with progressive depth rifling. I won't know for sure until I ram a round down and see how it feels, but if I have to use a fat .58 mold, that's not a big issue.

[John Holland]

All European made arms are required to have proof house markings and serial numbers by their own laws and import/export regulations. The "...few oval proofs..." may be the key as to who made the arm. It sounds as if it may have been scrubbed clean for reenacting purposes, aka "Defarbed".

The story you've heard that ArmiSport arms "...often don't have proofs..." is pure nonsense.

John Holland
N-SSA Small Arms Committee

[jonk]

All European made arms are required to have proof house markings and serial numbers by their own laws and import/export regulations. The "...few oval proofs..." may be the key as to who made the arm. It sounds as if it may have been scrubbed clean for reenacting purposes, aka "Defarbed".

The story you've heard that ArmiSport arms "...often don't have proofs..." is pure nonsense.

John Holland
N-SSA Small Arms Committee

Thanks John. I thought that such was nonsense. I'll go in with a printout of some of the more common proofs (Armi, Euroarms, Pedersoli, etc.) and see what it is. Given the locale, I doubt it's going to jump off the shelf.

[jonk]

One more thought- If no makers marks are in evidence, any tips on the dreaded (and non-permitted, unsafe) Indian reproductions, and how to avoid same?

[Southron Sr.]

It could be one of the ultra rare M1861 replicas imported from South Korea by Harpers Ferry Arms Company in the 1970's.

The hallmarks of the Korean made '61's is a stock that is finished black and a front sight that is MILLED and is actually part of the barrel!
Also, there is no screwed on breech section like all other reproductions, but the bolster is also milled out and part of the rest of the barrel!

A friend of mine had one of those arms many years ago. When he cut the barrel back to 33 inches to convert it into a 2 band "Artillery Rifle" he was dumbfounded to learn that the bore was off center and the bottom of the barrel was literally "Paper Thin" where he cut it. His only option was to cut the barrel back of 24 inches and make the gun into a Richmond Carbine.

The ONLY markings on the Korean Springfield barrels was the date "1861" in the top flat of the barrel at the breech and an "Eagle Head" proof mark on the left flat of the barrel at the breech.

[jonk]

It could be one of the ultra rare M1861 replicas imported from South Korea by Harpers Ferry Arms Company in the 1970's.

The hallmarks of the Korean made '61's is a stock that is finished black and a front sight that is MILLED and is actually part of the barrel!
Also, there is no screwed on breech section like all other reproductions, but the bolster is also milled out and part of the rest of the barrel!

A friend of mine had one of those arms many years ago. When he cut the barrel back to 33 inches to convert it into a 2 band "Artillery Rifle" he was dumbfounded to learn that the bore was off center and the bottom of the barrel was literally "Paper Thin" where he cut it. His only option was to cut the barrel back of 24 inches and make the gun into a Richmond Carbine.

The ONLY markings on the Korean Springfield barrels was the date "1861" in the top flat of the barrel at the breech and an "Eagle Head" proof mark on the left flat of the barrel at the breech.
That's.... strange. No, there is no black finished stock, and while 1861 plus the proof marks are all I see, the 1861 is on the lock, which sports NO eagle.

[John Holland]

A photo of the markings on the left side of the barrel, or indepth descriptions, would be most helpful.

JDH

[Southron Sr.]

The stocks of the South Korean Springfields were finished by dipping them in boiling linsed oil then setting them on a rack to dry-just like the originals were finished.

The South Korean Springfields had an eagle on the lockplate as best as I can recall.

The stock could have been refinished over the years, but the real determining factor is IF the barrel, bolster and front sight are milled out of one SOLID piece of steel-in other words there is no faint line where the beech is screwed on to the rest of the barrel.

Another possibility is that the arm is an early Miroku (Japanese made) Springfield.

U.S. Customs law REQUIRES that the country of origin be stamped somewhre on the barrel. Since that stamp is missing, I am wondering if the gun was a Re-enactor gun and the modern markings were removed intentionally.

[rachbobo]

Another possibility is that the arm is an early Miroku (Japanese made) Springfield.


I have one of the test shipment of 10 that Miroku sent to Val Sr of Navy Arms. It is serial number #5 of that shipment.
The left side of the breech is marked Japan and on top Navy Arms.
There is also a clear line where the bolster breech mates to the barrel.

Bill Cheek
cockade Rifles

[Maillemaker]

If possible, dismount the barrel and check for marks hidden under the stock.

Sometimes during the "defarb" process the markings are transferred.

Steve