London Armoury Kerr Rifle (.451) Barrel Repro Expected to be Available in January

[Pat in Virginia]

Let me know if you are interested in a reproduction of a LACo Kerr rifle barrel made to P53 Enfield dimensions other than the barrel will be 37" long per the original Kerr design. I have engaged a barrel maker (some feller named Hoyt) and have a "project engineer," who owns an original Kerr. I have a Kerr stock, but no barrel, hence, my interest.

The Bobby will need to have some idea as to how many barrels to turn out. Right now I have a count of about 10 barrels. He expects to be cranking them out in the 1st part of January as things currently stand. He will be testing a prototype barrel initially to make sure all is well.

I expect the basic price to be somewhere around $400. The barrel will not be blued. It is expected to come with a breech plug made to P53 dimensions. The sights will be your responsibility, but I expect that he will provide a 3/8" dovetail cut for a front sight or not upon request.

The barrel rifling will have the Kerr style twist: a straight section, a gain twist section to about mid-length with 1 turn in 20" standard twist after that. The rifling cut will be shaped as close to Kerr's as we can make it happen by examining an original Kerr barrel. The barrel will be crowned as per the original Kerr. The Kerr rifling at the muzzle was chamferred as well in order to make loading the bullet easier. At the moment, we have not finalized a decision on whether to do that as some feel it is likely to detract from accuracy. The Kerr did well at 600 yards for many shooters in Britain in the 1860's and for a few of them even at longer ranges out to 1000 yards. My guess is we'll leave it to the individual purchaser to have the chamferring done on his own or not.

The LACo Kerr rifle was used as a sniper rifle by the CSA, mainly in the Army of the Tennessee. If anyone knows of its use by the Army of Northern Virginia I'd love to know more about it.

By holding to P53 Enfield dimensions the barrel should be a drop in (that is at least our intent, for original P53 Enfields made at Enfield, LACo Kerr's and P53's, and probably UK made Parker Hale P53's, perhaps even the new Pedersoli P53.

Send me a personal message if you are seriously intersted with your email address and I will keep you well informed of progress. In the personal message please provide your email address as I have a mailing list of all interested parties and a count of how many barrels they would each like. Eventually, it would be nice to have a Kerr-shooters community to share experience and load info, etc. The barrel maker does ship overseas through the US Postal Service. The purchaser pays shipping in all cases.

As major events occur in the production of these barrels I'll post info here from time to time.



Pat in Virginia

[Mike w/ 34th]

Pat,

I tried to send you a private message, but I don't see it in my outbox, so I'm not sure it went through.

I'm interested in one barrel. Please add me to the list.

Thanks,

Michael McComas

[R Filbert]

Hey pat Robert from the Hazelwood here- Good job- I had Bobby make me 1 of those a few years ago of the Volunteer type -it shoots exelent -its a drop in fit as it was an original barrel, I sized down a .45-70 405 grain bullet and made a deeper minie pin for the base of the mold - It to loads easily. Been tring to get John and the SAC to let me use ti in the musket match but heard they had a bad demmo of a Whitworth that didnt go well as it fouled fast and the fellow loading it had to beat bullets down the barrel-- No good! Mine loads super easy- could probly load 50 plus rounds quite easaly- The gun is made from all original parts -the stock is an early Parker Hale every thing fit rite in with minimal work. It would be great to be able to show the guys how easy it loads compaired to the other fella and be able to use it in a match! Shes a tack driver! A pigion board would be a cinch let alone 100 yrds. Talk at ya later! R Filbert Capt. Havewood Vol. PM me with any thing you may know to make these work for us.

[Pat in Virginia]

I’ve been talking to Bobby Hoyt about external barrel configurations for the repro Kerr barrel.

Bobby is ready to get rolling on the project. I sent him barrel profile measurements for my original LACo P53 barrel and my early Birmingham made P-H P53 barrel. I’ve attached an Excel spreadsheet with that information in it to this email as well. (if you are interested in this spreadsheet send me a personal message with your email address in it and I'll send it to you. If you are interested in a barrel let me know that as well, if you have not already done so.) The measurements were made with a well calibrated caliper starting at the breech end of the barrel every inch for ten inches, then every two inches to 18 inches, then every 4 inches to 34 inches of length. I then measured at 36 inches and 37 inches as the .451 Kerr barrel is 37 inches long.

If you would like to measure your barrel and provide confirmation or identify significant differences it would be much appreciated. If you choose to determine your profile, and I really encourage you to do this as you will need it or know it conforms to mine when you order. First mark your barrel with a felt-tip pen accordingly and then measure from the muzzle to the breech. This way when you put your calipers on the mark their leading edge will be where the measurement is taken. Another thing you need to do is try your best to keep the long axis of the calipers perpendicular to, though offset from, the center line of the barrel (easy to say, harder to do) while you are trying to take the measurement on a line that is perpendicular to and intersects the center line of the barrel at the mark. Just be aware of the need and do the best you can. Taking the measurement at the back of the breech is the hardest to do properly as there are not as many places you can do it well and be at a point that intersects the axis of the barrel. Once done go back and redo all of your measurements. As a preliminary check you can set your calipers to the setting you measured and slip them down the barrel to the mark and see if they are too tight or too loose, but still re-measure anyway. It’s a pain, but I know I needed to do it to get things measured properly.

Bobby is willing to profile your barrel to your individual profile if you supply it to him. So you better get it right.
Now, we need to talk about the breech itself. Bobby gets his breeches from a particular private source and they are of a particular design. He is sending me one with an easily removable breech plug to see how it fits in my P53 P-H, LACo, and Kerr stocks and with the locks. So stand by for more information when I get my hands on it. I can tell you this about barrel to stock fit: the P-H barrel is a bit too large for my 1862 LACo stock. So it’s probably too large for an original Enfield RSAF stock as well (most of these were Snider’d). The P-H tang is just a bit too long for the LACo and doesn’t have the right curvature. The LACo stock has more curvature to the wrist of the stock than the P-H. The P-H tang could easily be fit to the LACo stock in my opinion with just a little filing (.05 inch or so). The LACo tang screw is tapered so won't fit the P-H tang screw hole as it is too small when the LACo screw gets near it's head. (I’m using the LACo stock as my standard since my Kerr stock was Snider’d and then restored.)

Another breech quirk between P-H and an original LACo is nipple placement. There appears to be about one tenth of an inch difference in where the center of the nipple hole is located on the bolster. That is significant. Fortunately, Bobby can order the breeches with the nipple hole not drilled and drill and tap them himself as needed. The rub is, if you need placement as per the original LACo and Enfield RSAF, you will have to wait until Bobby orders his next set of breeches (some without pre-drilled nipple holes) and that may be 6 months or so from now.

My LACo nipple was very close inboard to the barrel. The P-H was about a tenth of an inch, center-to-center, to the out-board. I believe Bobby’s breeches and the P-H are similarly located and will check that once I have one of Bobby’s breeches in hand. (Since I just had a hernia operation, that will be a good thing for me to do to stay out of trouble otherwise.)

So, with Bobby willing to make custom barrel contours and nipple placements things are looking really good. When I get the breech I’ll check lock and stock fit and see if I think it possible to do some filing and make them work for all the stocks of interest with regard to wood and lock fit.

Again, I need to have some feed-back from you:

1. Are you still interested in a repro Kerr barrel? Let me know if that is no longer the case; otherwise, I’ll assume that you are.

2. How do my barrel profile measurements compare to what you have: P-H and/or Kerr or anything else for that matter that you were considering? With custom configuring available for the barrel profile and nipple hole placement the possibilities get wider. Hopefully the breech configuration itself will not be a problem that some metal removal can’t cure. Stand-by for that information. The breech is in the mail.

3. I need to know what the distance is from the center line of your barrel to where the center of the nipple hole needs to be drilled.

4. Are you thinking about maybe getting a Kerr barrel repro for both a P-H and a LACo stock? I’m certainly considering doing that.

I have a P-H Whitworth stock as well as a P53 stock. My P-H Volunteer is a two-band’er so I’m thinking the Kerr barrel would be too long for it? The barrel looks to be thicker as well and now I’m getting out of the correct historical zone besides.

Should it turn out that my LACo barrel profile and yours are approximately the same that would be great information to have. The same is true of the P-H barrel profile.

Should it turn out that no one is presently interested in a P-H barrel configuration that would be good to know as well. Who knows Bobby might decide to order some new breeches without the nipple holes drilled sooner than he otherwise wood. I think he would really like to get going on this project.


Pat in Virginia

[Gary/CO]

Is it too late to get a barrel and breechplug?

[Pat in Virginia]

Gary,

It's not at all too late to make your desire known for a barrel. We are still working out production techniques and options and getting very close now to where a barrel will be available.

If you'll send me a PM with your email address, I'll send you a bunch a stuff I have provide to other interested parties over time and even today. If nothing else I think you will find them interesting reading.

I like to do most of my status and info updates via an email list rather than via forum given the photo and Excel, etc. attachements.

Do you desire to put the barrel into a P-H P53 or do you have an original P53 or Kerr stock you want to drop it into? It will be a barrel with approx. a .451 bore. The barrel is intended for mid-range shooting, out to 600 yards, although a very few did well with them at 1000 yards.

We'll be able to profile the barrel to your needs and place the nipple where it needs to be for your lock/stock conbination. The current breeches in-hand have nipple placement that is correct for a Birmingham Parker Hale (P-H) P53 it seems. It will be possible (assuming lightning doesn't strike the breech maker) to get breeches where the nipple hole is not already drilled and Bobby can place the hole where it needs to be for your application. Originals of the period have the nipple hole center appoximately a tenth of an inch in-board from where they are for an early P-H P53.

Looking forward to hearing from you and the more you tell me about why you are interested the better I'll be able to inform.



Pat

[Gary/CO]

Thanks Pat. PM sent. Gary