Revolver Range Decorum

[Eggman]

In another effort to add to reduce conflict and smooth feathers I would like to address the issue of the green signs on the revolver range. These signs say in essence "no talking." These signs are all over including well into the spectator area. I commented to my team mate and compadre Norm that it seemed a lot like an NRA event. He said "You bet your bootees." I said would it be alright to sing. He said "They would send you home." I recall last spring that while taliking to my wife and JoAnn, another team mate's wife, a fellow left the firing line and sent a safety officer over to us (about thirty yards behind the line) to shut us up. We shut up, but he continued to look unhappy anyway. I never did see him smile. I have to admit we were talking a little louder than usual to be heard over the gunfire.
I think spectators should be allowed to talk. Now how can we do this. I would like to suggest that we begin playing what's commonly called "white noise" over the PA system. This would drown out the spectator conversations and sooth type A revolver shooters. To me a good possiblitly might be playing polka music recorded by the Six Fat Dutchmen. This always seemed to sooth my old man.
We need a comfortable, low stress, pleasing, inviting, soothing atmosphere throughout Fort Shenandoah. Eventually in might become like the Good Book says, "The song of the turtle was heard in the land." Although I must admit I've never heard a turtle sing. In fact I didn't hear anything when I hit one with a rock one time.

[Maillemaker]

Wow. I have not yet been to a Nationals (it's a 10 hour trip from here) but down here in the Deep South, our shoots seem a lot more laid back to me.

We are always talking and bantering. Even on the firing line there are lots of jibs and jabs and the usual comments about thumbing your balls and so on, at least with team shooting.

Maybe at the National's there is a sense of a lot more being on the line, like at the Olympics, say.

What I like the most about shooting with my friends is hanging out and shooting targets, and the bull.

Besides, if talking around them distracts them, what about, you know, the gunfire?

Steve

[RaiderANV]

Eggs=====> Illegitimi non carborundum ;)
got maynard?

[Don Dixon]

A general observation, because I did not complain about loud talking at the most recent nationals.

The U.S. Army and the Veterans Administration both say that I'm disabled because I have infantryman's ears from exposure to too much gunfire in the military. I have difficulty hearing my wife and my grandchildren because my high frequency hearing is badly damaged. I wear good ear plugs AND good ear muffs to protect the hearing that I still have when I shoot. Curiously, when I'm on line at N-SSA matches I can still hear loud talking behind the firing line. That is not the case at ANY other shooting competitions that I attend.

Perhaps you can tell me why some N-SSA members lack the common courtesy not to inflict themselves upon other members who have devoted the time, effort and money to come to the nationals while they are trying to shoot? Blow your mouth somewhere other than the range.

You will notice that I don't hide behind a nom de e-mail.

Regards,
Don Dixon
2881V

[RaiderANV]

Perhaps you can tell me why some N-SSA members lack the common courtesy not to inflict themselves upon other members who have devoted the time, effort and money to come to the nationals while they are trying to shoot? Blow your mouth somewhere other than the range.


I'd guess 99% DON'T even realize they are talking to loud,,,,,,just caught up in the moment. One only needs ask that they pipe down. In the case of those who don't feel it's their job to ask them,,,,,call a safety officer to do the deed.

[Lou Lou Lou]

Was this during Individual matches or the team matches? I get a sense that it may have been during individuals. The team matches are fairly robust with respect to "noise"

[matt]

I did not realize that we were now playing golf at the Nationals. If you are having trouble concentrating on shooting individuals I would tend to think that others firing would be louder than anyone talking. Just my take on the matter but I have never had any problems with others noise bothering me in fact ive never noticed any voices at all except the tower giving commands, now sometimes someone shooting next to me will catch my attention and may spoil my shot, but that comes with the sport.
Matt
Winslow's Battery 9775v

[Eggman]

My real name is Jim Van Eldik. If you would like to meet some time just come down to the Iredell Blues camp to the right of the road split next to the creek and ask for Big Steve.

[hp gregory]

im like most people in that i would like a reasonable amount of quiet. however i always found if i was hearing what was going on behind the line i realy wasnt paying attention to my shooting. if i am concentrating i dont hear anything around me. but its still a good idea for people behind the line to remember where they are.but all of us do it from time to time. its pretty easy to forget.
hp

[Jim Brady Knap's Battery]

I'll second HP's comments. If I'm totally zoned on the front sight and trigger there isn't much else in the world except for the song the we played the night before and couldn't remember all the words to that winds up running through your noggin like a looped tape. Over and over and over and over.............................................. ..

Jim Brady
2249V
Knap's Battery

[Don Dixon]

My point:

I really don't have any difficulty focusing, as might be noted by a brief look at my totals on the various N-SSA Distinguished lists.

My hearing loss, when coupled with ear plugs and ear muffs, makes it diffficult for me to hear the loud speaker from the tower operator. A common question to my team mates is "Have they given the command load yet?" etc.

Most everyone who shoots has some degree of hearing loss. So, to talk over their hearing loss and over whatever ear protection they are wearing people have to yell at each other. When "conversations" are louder than the tower operator's loud speaker - particularly when the "conversation" is occurring some distance from the firing line - there is a problem.

I retiterate. Go "talk" somewhere else.

Regards,
Don Dixon
2881V

[Jim Wimbish, 10395]

This complaint pops up on a regular basis. Because of the extra space between the spectator area and the line (used by shooters during the team event) you don't hear this complaint on the main range. The complaint is always about shooters carrying on a conversation. With the spectators closer to the shooters on the revolver range, complaints occur. Before you blame the spectators, remember that they are not talking any louder than they do when they are behind the main range, but they are now closer to the shooters. Hard for them to realize the difference, unless they have shot revolver. If you want to solve the problem, keep the non-shooters further away from the firing line on the revolver range. Unfortunately, with the space available, this is not practical. Perhaps some signs that say do not talk within 30 feet of the firing line during individual competition.

[Eggman]

Well with that, plus the 99XXXX on the 25 yard line, and the fact that I've only lost a little hearing in one ear, I must relent.


Oh somewhere in this skirmish land the sun is shinning bright,
The band is playing somewhere, and on the main range hearts are bright,
And somewhere men are laughing, and in the playground children shout,
But there is no joy on the revolver range,
Robert Dixon has spoken out.

(with apologies to Ernest Thayer)

[Mike McDaniel]

Ah, but there is much joy on the revolver range. Don and I call it "The Thrill of Victory".

[Maillemaker]

You brought a tear to my eye, Eggman! ;)

Steve

[John Holland]

This is an age old topic that will never be put to rest. I have to agree with Jim Brady and hp about tuning out, or zoning in, whichever you prefer to call it. My personal opinion is that those who complain about background jabber may not be able to concentrate fully on the task at hand, so a distraction of any type becomes magnified to them. Fortunately I have always had the ability to tune things out when I'm fully engrossed in an individual match. Yes, courtesy should prevail, but it never will in this less than perfect world.

JDH

[Robt. Propst]

Perhaps as we attempt to identify the issues that prevent the association from growing, this thread could be taken to heart. As we endeavor to appeal to recreational shooters with an interest in history, the "shut up and allow the pros to do their thing" just MAYBE could turn someone away. We TALK about the cameradery and friendship, but how do we really sign that check? If you don't care for the Soup Nazi, will you patronize that establishment? I think not. I realize I have a Deep South attitude, somewhat casual, and have found the sheer intensity of some folks at the nationals always a bit of a turn off. Perhaps that just falls into my own rucksack of personal failings. It's a big ruck. In closing, you go, Eggman, koo koo ka choo!

[Ron/The Old Reb]

Ah, but there is much joy on the revolver range. Don and I call it "The Thrill of Victory".

And for some " The Agony of Defeat "http://www.n-ssa.org/vbforum/images/smilies/icon_cry.gif

[CJM]

Perhaps as we attempt to identify the issues that prevent the association from growing, this thread could be taken to heart. As we endeavor to appeal to recreational shooters with an interest in history, the "shut up and allow the pros to do their thing" just MAYBE could turn someone away. We TALK about the cameradery and friendship, but how do we really sign that check? If you don't care for the Soup Nazi, will you patronize that establishment? I think not. I realize I have a Deep South attitude, somewhat casual, and have found the sheer intensity of some folks at the nationals always a bit of a turn off. Perhaps that just falls into my own rucksack of personal failings. It's a big ruck. In closing, you go, Eggman, koo koo ka choo!

This is a very good point. Look I am as serious about shooting a good target as anyone else but more important to me than that is enjoying what I am doing and seeing that those around me are enjoying their time as well. If someone is that anal maybe they need to take some time out to reflect upon the more important things in life. We only get one go round and I prefer to make it a pleasant experience. I find it hard to believe that someone talking behind the line would have a serious affect on where my bullet impacts the paper, unless they startled me. This is doubtful with all of the other revo's going off around you already. Seriously, can we at least attempt to quell some of the frivolous complaints that plague our everyday lives enough already?

[efritz]

$.02

Suggestion and nothing more to those who hear things going on behind them. Wear ear plugs AND ear muffs. Win win situation. You MAY hear something going on behind you but you won't understand what is being said and you'll better protect your own hearing. If you can't understand what is being said you'll have less tendency to pay any attention to it. It's like we can all hear the shooting going on, even at the rifle range, but do we pay attention to it? Maybe that's only a $.01 worth.

[RaiderANV]

There were a couple of really rare cases where I didn't want to be bothered with noise so I headed to the far end of the firing line where I'd be the only shooter,,,,,but then I was all alone

[Blair]

I am kind of wondering what has gone missing from the idea/concept of showing some form of "Common Courtesy" toward your fellow competitor?
If one is talking loud... then that will probably be annoying someone!
If one is finding such behind the scenes conversations a bother to your concentration... then one should probably take a brake.
Voicing such things as this on such a wide read BB as this?... Bad form guys!
Just a thought?

[Eggman]

Three things deterred me from bringing this to a different forum. First was my friend Norm, an old hard core competitor, who seemed enthusiastic for the no talking rule. The second was the vigorous enforcement of the rule the past TWO nationals including more and more no talking signs going up. My conclusion was that obviously this Camp Perry type environment has support of the leadership. The third was the demeanor of a revolver range safety officer, the guy who told us to shut up in the spring. He was also very apologetic. He seemed greatly intimidated by somebody, and thought enforcement of the rule was crap. The spectators I questioned all felt the same way.
I thought only a grass roots effort, if anything, would work.

[Joe Plakis, 9575V]

Common Courtesy, HA! Go to the membership meeting in the barn. Can barely hear the National Commander talking over the crowd, on a PA System. To expect anything out of the common skirmisher that is any different than the leadership they send to the meeting is comical, and sad.

No matter where you go it is all about me, me, me! (not followed by a song!)

I am a foot in mouth type of person and sometime I even bight off the toes!

[Blair]

Joe,

All I am suggesting is think in terms of 'Competition'.
Public meetings within the Association... well, have at 'em!!!!
Don't make the issue a public forum on the internet.
Apples and oranges.

[Scott Harris]

I am afraid Mr. Fritz has the best answer. I am gonna have to learn how to shoot with earmuffs over my plugs. For me, holding concentration for 10 shots has always been the hardest part of shooting individuals. I think I have a better chance with that than having people keep quiet behind the line.

[norman horne, 12321]

Eggman has mentioned my name on this subject a couple of times concerning my answer to a question he asked ME about noise behind the shooting line. Let me be clear; I do not give a hoot about it! If it did bother me I would re-locate to another part of the line, as someone else mentioned.

He also mentions Camp Perry. Another point that needs to be clarified; C.P. and Fort Shenandoah are two different ball games. There are very few spectators at C.P.(or any other bullseye match) and if there, they are not allowed anywhere near the firing line.

I have only shot a couple of "modern" matches since finding the N-SSA. Reason? Shooting in this venue is a whole lot more FUN! I will gladly suffer the minor disturbance of someone talking behind the line as long as I can contiue to be a part of this great organization.

Y'all come on down to Statesville next month and we'll all enjoy some fun and fellowship! Take care, Norm Horne.

[Jim Brady Knap's Battery]

I'm with Norm on that point. I too used to shoot high power and while it was challenging and gave great satisfaction when you came away knowing that at least you kicked your own butt and conqured a horrible mirrage and shifting gusts at 600, it was not the fun sport that the N-SSA provides.

In joking harrassment I have had fired caps bounce off my hat courtesy of my fellow shooters while I was loading the next shot. After delivering mild verbal abuse I blew it off, went back into my shot cycle and zoned in on sights and trigger. I have never been able to hold that level of focus for a full 20 minute indivdual match but have had some success at holding it for each shot cycle (shouldering to recoil) which is all that is really required for success. I may have been a distraction, or a help, to other shooters on those days I caught myself slowly muttering "Sights and trigger" during each shot cycle. I'm slowing down now competiitvley and don't go at paper like I used to but as the saying, that I hate, goes "Back in the day" I was hard at it and had a respectable medal count over all those years.

In truth there is a level of loud talking, yelling and screaming that should not go on in the ready area but sharing stories and laughter with friends we only see at skirmishes is all part of the game and it is unreasonable to expect total silence.

The N-SSA is such a great experience and, another saying I detest, "Dare I say" life style that I'll keep my membership for years to come.

Jim Brady
2249V (Member since 1970)
Knap's Battery

[Eggman]

Well Norm has one of those inscrutable faces, kind of like Buddha.

[Bob Bumleg]

Was this during Individual matches or the team matches? I get a sense that it may have been during individuals. The team matches are fairly robust with respect to "noise"

I like the word "robust". "Smock" has a nice ring also.

[Eggman]

Well here's the thing Harry I don't think ANYONE in our organization advocates bad manners. What concerns me is the institutionalization of "NO Talking" restrictions in the spectator areas. The "official" green signs in the revolver range spectator area have the distinct fragrance of "it is the policy of the board" which ends all arguments and debate, and to me is the nose of the camel in the tent. I'm afraid such restrictions will doom us. We need to get back to "Would you mind not doing that" and leave it at that.

[Robert Egan]

talk has not distracted me, but remember that these are muzzle loaders, distraction could have serious results, double load, etc.

[Eddie Bruner, 12222]

Some shooters are trying to be more competitive than others. What is it so inconvienient and such a violation of your good time as a spectator to not talk loudly as to disrupt the competitors??

-Eddie

[John Holland]

All of this begs the question: How does anyone shoot well during the Team Matches with all that Hootin' & Hollerin" going on all the while you're shooting? All of that supportive enthusiasm coming not only from team mates right behind the line/gravel road, but also from all of the avid spectators cheering the teams on to Victory? Not to mention the nearly 500 Muskets, Carbines, Smoothbores, or whichever match you're competing in, all going off at the same time and rapid fire at that, and you're sandwiched in cheek by jowl?

JDH

[RaiderANV]

All of this begs the question: How does anyone shoot well during the Team Matches with all that Hootin' & Hollerin" going on all the while you're shooting?

JDH

John, I'd suggest those few that would appreciate silence during their 20 minute course of fire all dedicate to winning that individual medal don't preform as well in team competitions. They don't have that 20 minutes or even the relaxed time frame to fire. To each their own out on the line. Myself,,,,I can watch every shot I take through the scope and talk myself into a score between 85-92 every time. If I'd just go and shoot the target and pay no attention I'd do a lot better. I just don't have the drive needed to shoot paper. When it comes to targets breaking and carrying on during the match with teammates I excel.
While I'd swear no one talks loud to bother anyone it's just getting caught up in our sport, seeing folks you only see a few times a year and it all happens in the moment. The only way to solve the problem is to KNOW IT HAPPENS and to set up your targets where you know you'll have peace. If you set up in the middle of everything I don't believe you should even expect to get conditions you desire to shoot your targets.
The answer is simple,,,,,,,you have to set up away from everyone and shoot with no distractions.

I'd venture a guess it's the same problems with Cowboy Action shooting or whatever it's called,,,,,,,,,maybe even worse.

[Mike McDaniel]

All of this begs the question: How does anyone shoot well during the Team Matches with all that Hootin' & Hollerin" going on all the while you're shooting? All of that supportive enthusiasm coming not only from team mates right behind the line/gravel road, but also from all of the avid spectators cheering the teams on to Victory? Not to mention the nearly 500 Muskets, Carbines, Smoothbores, or whichever match you're competing in, all going off at the same time and rapid fire at that, and you're sandwiched in cheek by jowl?

JDH
Most people don't. If you can get four shooters to go 50% on pigeon-sized targets in team events, you can reliably win in class A-1. At most other skirmishes, finishing all the targets - just finishing - will put you in the medals, usually first place.

[Eddie Bruner, 12222]

All of this begs the question: How does anyone shoot well during the Team Matches with all that Hootin' & Hollerin" going on all the while you're shooting? All of that supportive enthusiasm coming not only from team mates right behind the line/gravel road, but also from all of the avid spectators cheering the teams on to Victory? Not to mention the nearly 500 Muskets, Carbines, Smoothbores, or whichever match you're competing in, all going off at the same time and rapid fire at that, and you're sandwiched in cheek by jowl?

JDH

They don't, at least not as well. I barely even shoot paper, an lucky to shoot a 46-1X. But I can consistently shoot a 21 second hit time on Carbine, 17 seconds on Ballard, and 30 second on Musket. They are different disciplines.

Personally loud talking during individuals does not effect me and my poor paper shooting at all, but guys shooting 48-49 with many x's are affected by distractions, and I think we should respect those guys striving for winning paper.

-Eddie

[Eddie Bruner, 12222]

just finishing - will put you in the medals, usually first place.'

Boy, not in the Midwest region!!!

-Eddie

[Maillemaker]

All of this begs the question: How does anyone shoot well during the Team Matches with all that Hootin' & Hollerin" going on all the while you're shooting? All of that supportive enthusiasm coming not only from team mates right behind the line/gravel road, but also from all of the avid spectators cheering the teams on to Victory? Not to mention the nearly 500 Muskets, Carbines, Smoothbores, or whichever match you're competing in, all going off at the same time and rapid fire at that, and you're sandwiched in cheek by jowl?

That's what I was asking earlier. Also in team shooting there is a lot of talk about which targets are hit or not, and who is going after which target. Not to mention all the gunfire going off around you.

Maybe shooting paper is the "golf" of our sport. :)

Steve

[mike davenport]

Shooting 10x's and 4" tiles are two different disiplines. There are quite a few "top" paper shooters who do quite well on team matches. The Tidewater Region has several. Although I find the "extra" range imposed rules, (there are non in the rule book that address the "Rules" imposed at the Pistol range) over the top, never the less the safety officer is the "boss" while you are on the line and you must follow their instruction. If you differ in opinion from the safety you can object, obey and take the issue to the skirmish director, and above if need be.

By the way you are allowed a spotter/coach on the line during individuals, but you cannot disturb others.

My two cents
Mike Davenport
DSR

[Muley Gil]

All of this begs the question: How does anyone shoot well during the Team Matches with all that Hootin' & Hollerin" going on all the while you're shooting? All of that supportive enthusiasm coming not only from team mates right behind the line/gravel road, but also from all of the avid spectators cheering the teams on to Victory? Not to mention the nearly 500 Muskets, Carbines, Smoothbores, or whichever match you're competing in, all going off at the same time and rapid fire at that, and you're sandwiched in cheek by jowl?

JDH

Shoot John, I can miss with the best of 'em!!!!

Seriously, it is the ability to block out the distractions that is one of the things that a good marksman learns to do.

[Don Dixon]

Ah, a comparison of team shooting to individual paper targets: Why don't we compare apples and oranges. They're both fruit. But. For a reality check lay a pigeon over a 50 yard paper target, or a 6X6 tile over a 100 yard paper target. A very scratchy 90 score will break every pigeon or tile. In Category 1, a 90 won't get you sh*t. Different game, different rules. I shoot pretty good team scores, and have the medals to prove it. But, team really doesn't matter to me because its pretty meatball shooting.

Move somewhere else: But you can't do that after you've started shooting.

Set up at the very far end of the line: But I've often done that, and often enough some yahoo still stands behind me and blows their mouth.

It's all about your lack of focus: Your putting the blame on me for your lack of common courtesy, and are shocked, shocked that I might call you on it.

The reality check: You read a variety of opinions on this web site about a variety of things. Some of them have value, and some don't. When a member puts their member number on their post, there is a reality check. After every nationals the N-SSA statistician very helpfully posts an updated list of the Distinguished Skirmisher/Distinguished Shooter stats by member number. It gives you an idea of whether they might have a clue about what they're talking about - or not.

Regards,
Don Dixon
2881V

[Eggman]

Thank you Don! That was awesome!!!!

[Jim Wimbish, 10395]

Paper target competition is not unique to the NSSA. There are all kinds of shooting matches where the winner is determined by aggregate score. In my experience with other match formats including air pistol and smallbore, etiquette demands that others refrain from talking in other than a near whisper during a match. It takes a lot more concentration to shoot a 10x than it does a 9 and all of the competitors understand this. No one wants to be distracted during that critical stage when you are discharging the shot. So basically, the paper shooters in the NSSA aren't asking for any more than shooters in other formats already have.

I enjoy shooting Civil War guns and I was attracted to the NSSA because of the team competition, not the paper targets. Breakable targets are more fun to shoot for me and working together as a team is a hoot. It allowed me to shoot in a compeititive venue where you could talk and laugh while you were shooting. It's more relaxed and I come to NSSA matches to have fun.

We have to respect the differences between paper target and breakable target competition and give the paper target shooters the same courtesy that shooters outside of the NSSA receive.

[hp gregory]

over the years i have been a cross over shooter. i have shot round ball and skirmish guns and have enjoyed both very much. i was always amazed at how round ball people would say here come those dam civil war guys. they stand on the line stick their bayonet in the ground and never move. then of course you have the skirmisher who is on the line and the round ball guy sets the skirmishers hair on fire with his flint lock because the skirmisher doesnt move till his target is done. by rule the round ball shooter has to load behind the line. so the skirmisher says i hate those dam round ball shooters because they are always burning me with their flinters
having an understanding of both types of shooting i just sat back and thought neither one of these folks have a clue as to what the other guys game is. i think we have a certain amount of that type of thing going on within the nssa. reading all these posts i can see where you have the folks that love the idea of getting together with their friends and doing a little bit of shooting. hey thats fine with me. over the years i have turned more towards that sort of thing. the more friends you loose to the almighty the more you appreciate the ones you have left. then of course you have the shooters who look on skirmishing as a competitive sport. some like the indys and some like the team shooting. and then you have that rare bird that likes to do both. i see guys that say here comes that dam guy that likes to shoot paper. all he wants is to win a medal. but oddly enough i dont hear the paper shooters ever say here comes that dam guy that just shoots teams. all he cares about is team shooting. most often if the guy or gal shoots well i hear them say man that guy kicks ass on teams. hes or she is one hell of a shot.
the nssa is about all kinds of shooting and the shooters who do it. its both about friendship and shooting. so if someone likes to shoot paper and he wants a little quiet give it to him. i would bet money if he needed some caps or help with a gun problem most of you would offer that help and of course he would be glad to return the favor. so if someone needs a little quiet to enjoy his sport give it to them. its not like its gona cost you anything. help make skirmishing even more fun for all concerned.

hp gregory

[Ron/The Old Reb]

Amen! to that HP

[Robt. Propst]

H.P., well said. And that ends my attention span on this topic. Yours, Aye, Bob

[jonk]

This was my first trip to nationals and was my first year skirmishing. I can confidently state that I did not hear anything once my plugs were in and I was focusing on the task at hand.

If anything is going to distract me it's going to be hundreds of guns going off with big bangs and clouds of black powder smoke, or the cold, or my ill fitting shoes, NOT someone 30 feet behind me talking. If someone isn't heckling or shouting or standing right behind me within 2-3 feet, I could give a darn if they talk or sing or belch the alphabet, and IMHO, anyone who feels otherwise is just way, WAY to uptight about this.

[pastore]

[QUOTE=jonk;26232]This was my first trip to nationals and was my first year skirmishing.

That explains a lot.:rolleyes:

[RaiderANV]

And so ends another worthy thread
http://www.dslreports.com/r0/download/128575~b4c7ef411e308cd9ac58f8ed9f9ed816/flogging.gif


Flogging a dead horseFrom Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[/URL][URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flogging_a_dead_horse#p-search"] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flogging_a_dead_horse#mw-head)
For other uses, see Flogging a dead horse (disambiguation) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flogging_a_dead_horse_(disambiguation)).
Flogging a dead horse (alternatively beating a dead horse in some parts of the Anglophone (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English-speaking_world) world) is an idiom (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idiom) that means a particular request or line of conversation is already foreclosed or otherwise resolved, and any attempt to continue it is futile; or that to continue in any endeavour (physical, mental, etc.) is a waste of time as the outcome is already decided.
The first recorded use of the expression with its modern meaning is by British politician (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politician) and orator (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orator) John Bright (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Bright), referring to the Reform Act of 1867 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reform_Act_1867), which called for more democratic representation inParliament (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parliament_of_the_United_Kingdom), an issue about which Parliament was singularly apathetic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apathetic). Trying to rouse Parliament from its apathy on the issue, he said in a speech, would be like trying to flog a dead horse to make it pull a load. The Oxford English Dictionary cites The Globe, 1872, as the earliest verifiable use of flogging a dead horse, where someone is said to have "rehearsed that [...] lively operation known as flogging a dead horse".