Springfield vs Enfield: historic preference vs modern preference??

[ExMachina]

Hi. I'm new here. I've tried to search for these answers but am resorting to starting a new thread

Here is what I'm am confused about:

First, how well documented is the belief that Southern soldiers armed with Enfields would routinely exchange them for a Springfield whenever possible?

Second, the Civil War wiki (http://civilwarwiki.net/wiki/1853_Pattern_Enfield_Rifle-Musket_(P53)) says of the Enfield "American soldiers liked it because its .577 cal. barrel allowed the use of .58 cal. ammunition used by both Union and Confederate armies." :confused: Isn't this backwards?--you could fit a smaller ball into the the Springfield but the .58 cal bullet would be very difficult to load into an Enfield.

Finally, if I'm to believe the production/import numbers, Enfields were statistically underrepresented on the historic battlefield. Why then are they so over-represented at reenactments? I've even seen a Union regiment were I'd guess more than 80% of the guys had Enfields--is there any historic justification for that?

Sorry for the neewbie questions--trying to learn as much as I can before I buy a musket. Thanks

[Blair]

ExMachina,

Key words here... "before I" (meaning you) "buy a musket."

It is important to note that most soldiers use what they are issued.
It makes no difference whether it is good bad or indifferent, you use what you were given.


As to imported arms, the Enfield type arms are the highest numbers imprted, with the Austrian types being next in numbers.

Keep in mind, today, NO Government is providing the stuff you need! You are buying or paying for it yourself!
Should you find yourself doing more reenacting than shooting... then you may want to focus your attention on three band length firearms.
My suggestion for you is to spend your hard earned bucks on what you like and/or feels best to you and still meets your wants and needs.
Just my opinion...

[Ken Hansgen, 11094]

Blair, Keep in mind that you're talking to a reenactor (I guess) not a skirmisher. I don't think Ex Machina has any intention of joining the N-SSA and shooting with us.

Ex Machina, Am I right? Because if you want a musket just to reenact, you could buy an Armi-Sport M1842 smoothbore or a M1855 or M1861 Springfield (if you prefer something rifled so you could explain Minie balls). All were in use throughout the War, Buying a M1861, you could also explain how that graceful hammer acquired its shape.

Commercial .58 ammo. of the CW was sized about .575, so would fit down a clean .577 barrel, even shot somewhat more accurately. But when the barrel became fouled up, a Springfield with its slightly larger barrel could still shoot them. Don't have the kind of references you ask for, tho'. (OK, I admit, I was too lazy.)

If you also with to skirmish with the N-SSA, I'd recommend using a separate firearm (or a least a separate barrel) anyway, to prevent inadvertent damage when you use it for reenacting. Many skirmishers prefer a shorter, 2-band rifle, because it is easier to reload quickly, and they like the more adjustable ladder-type rear sight, such as on an Enfield or M1841/55 Mississippi or an older M1855 rifle (altho' plenty of the other kinds of muskets are on the line also). That's why Blair says to choose the kind that suits you best. These shorter rifles are frowned upon in the reenactment community, however

[Mike McDaniel]

IIRC, both sides wound up issuing .577 (nominal) ammo. It fit both Enfield and Springfield.

I suspect the reason Enfields are disproportionately used in the reenactment community is that they work well for both Federals and Confederates. Confederates are disproportionately represented among reenactors, too.

Skirmishers? We favor the two-band rifles anyway, as being better balanced.

[Southron Sr.]

According to tests conducted by the Army of Northern Virginia in 1862, all .577 & 58 caliber rifles and rifle-muskets were just about equally accurate out to 600 yards. Past 600 yards the MOST ACCURATE was the P-60 Army Short Rifle. This rifle had a 33 inch "Heavy Barrel" with the 1 in 48" Twist, 5 Land & Groove Rifling with Progressive Depth Rifling. The P-60 had a barrel that was also identical to that found on the P-58 Naval Rifle. The basic difference between the Army Short Rifle and the Naval Rifle is that the Naval Rifle had brass furniture and the Army rifle, iron furniture.

Whenever possible, Confederate Sharp Shooters in the ANV were issued the P-60 Enfield Army Short Rifles with British made ammunition. The Confederacy imported very few Naval Rifles.

That being said, most re-enactment organizations frown on short barrel rifles and most groups insist that their members use the regular 3 band length rifle-muskets whether they be Enfields or Springfields.

[ExMachina]

I am neither a skirmisher nor a reenactor (I'll even confess to not knowing the difference) but merely a history buff who grew up in Virginia where there seemed to be a reenactment to watch every weekend ;). Most folks today seem to want an Enfield and I was curious as to why they are so favored. When I looked more in depth at the small arms used and at the production numbers of the Springfields vs the number of Enfields imported, I was curious why the Enfields were so over represented on the reenactment battlefield? Statistically (historically) your average Confederate soldier would not have been armed with an Enfield but with some other long arm and most likely then with a Springfield.

For me, I want to get a reproduction arm (probably a Springfield) that I can shoot a lot at 100-200 yards and feel that I was experiencing the same feel and performance as a soldier during the Civil War.

I would still like to know what you guys know about soldiers discarding Enfields in favor of Springfields--seems I've read about this in several places.

Thanks for all the information so far.

EDIT: now I understand the difference between skirmisher and reenactor...if I had to pick, I'd pick skirmisher ;)

[Maillemaker]

I highly recommend these books by Craig L. Barry:

http://www.amazon.com/The-Civil-War-Musket-Accuracy-Lock/dp/0974220124/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1348450447&sr=8-1&keywords=craig+l.+barry
http://www.amazon.com/The-Unfinished-Fight-Confederate-Material/dp/B0099QSSQY/ref=sr_1_16?ie=UTF8&qid=1348450447&sr=8-16&keywords=craig+l.+barry

Particularly the latter.

Both of these books go into detail about the numbers of different kinds of weapons imported and used during the Civil War. Both books are only $25 each. They are fantastic reads.

Steve

[Damon]

A important point to remember is the the Enfield imported during the civil war were mostly not interchangeable parts arms and apparently the quality ranged from excellent to barely passable. The Springfield rifle-muskets on the other hand were all machine made, parts interchangeable arms. The average soldier probably didn't care about the ladder sight vs the simple 3 leaf sight that shooters do today.

[Southron Sr.]

You almost have to research arms on a unit by unit basis and also depending on what period of the war you are studying. For example in 1861 & 1862 some General Grant's men int he Western Theater were still carrying smoothbore, FLINTLOCK M1816 muskets! These were replaced as quickly as possible, but it still took some time.

Finally, with a few exceptions here and there, most Northern and Southern units had .577 & .58 caliber rifle muskets, be they either Enfields, Richmonds or Springfields.

Regarding the "exchange" of Enfields for Springfields on the battlefield-I am sure it happened during the war, especially since some of the Enfields imported were of very poor quality. That being said, many high quality Enfields were manufactured and imported from England by both the U.S. & C.S.

When either an Enfield or Springfield had a CLEAN BORE either standard U.S. Or C.S. .58 caliber ammo could be used. After a few shots and the bore got dirty, ramming a .58 caliber ball home became a chore. Some soldiers would simply draw .54 caliber ammo (meant for Mississippi Rifles) and load and fire that in their .58 caliber Springfields and Enfields after the bores got dirty.

Realize that re-enactors usually represent "Generic" Union and Confederate soldiers. I don't think you are going to see any re-enactor unit armed with, for example, Austrian Rifles or for that matter, Mississippi Rifles although numerous original Civil War units were armed with those weapons.

Get and read the Barry books-you will learn a lot.

All My Best
Southron

[Richard Hill]

For What It's Worth...

I've been helping a well-known sutler at the 150th anniversary re-enactments, fixing busted-rusted guns. From listening to the talk I would conclude that the Enfields have fewer misfires due to the shorter, more direct flame channel. A lot of the Springfield repops have a cone seat/nipple bolster with a large hollow space below the nipple which quickly fills with crud and hardens. This stuff will block the flame channel and cause the gun to quit firing. A thorough cleaning with the 3-part solution and a dentist pick cures the problem.

[Blair]

Richard,

I can't help but wonder if this has more to do with modern Maintenance practices of these arms? (or the lack there of)

This does seem to be a phenomenon effects the modern reenacting community.
More so, than within the Skirmishing community or within the Historical Documentation.

Perhaps somebody should reevaluate their arms maintenance/cleaning practices?
Of course, I am not 'pointing any fingers'.

[Damon]

Blair,
Think the behavior of blanks verse live rounds has something to due with Springfield misfires.

[Don Dixon]

What was described has a great deal to do with proper maintenance: then or now. Many re-enactor arms I have seen were in disgusting condition. Some re-enactors seem to believe that an arm should look like one that's been in the celler for the last 150 years. Presented to "old sarge" during the "wah" for inspection, "old sarge" would have beaten the troop half to death to address his attitude regarding acceptabale weapons maintenance.

Regards,
Don Dixon
2881V

[Southron Sr.]

Both the 1855 and 1861 Springfield bolsters have a longer Flash Channel because of the original requirements for the M1855's Maynard Tape Primer system.

The "Improved" M1863 & 1864 Springfields had the short Flash Channel like that found on the Enfield.

[John Holland]

When Whitney developed their own version of locating the nipple closer to the barrel they called it a "Direct Vent". The proper Whitney nomenclature for what we now call the "Flush Lock Whitney Artillery Rifle" was in fact the "Whitney Direct Vent Carbine".

JDH