Parker Hale Volunteer

[johnefelts]

I have a Parker Hale Volunteer w/Henry rifling, does anyone know what size replacemant nipple I need. The 8x1mm nipples do not work, which By the way I have two 8x1mm nipples from Dixie for sale or trade for correct nipple for my Parker.

[Maillemaker]

Craig L. Barry's Lock Stock and Barrel book has a chart with nipple sizes for various weapons - I will look it up for you tonight.

Steve

[robertdeans72]

HI there,

You'll need a 5/16 - 18 threaded nipple... Note, If you are going to do any serious shooting you will need a platinum lined nipple. They are expensive but they last..... the pressure in a Volunteer is so much greater than in a 58cal rifle. They have an even smaller breech section or "powder chamber" that serves to bump up pressure let again.

Rob

[lauropicasso]

HI there,

You'll need a 5/16 - 18 threaded nipple... Note, If you are going to do any serious shooting you will need a platinum lined nipple. They are expensive but they last..... the pressure in a Volunteer is so much greater than in a 58cal rifle. They have an even smaller breech section or "powder chamber" that serves to bump up pressure let again.

Rob

I recent bought a pre owned 451 Volunter , 2 band, Parker Hale SN #1235 HENRY RIFLING
May be some can help me with two questions
1. Thread for nipple, I think is 5/16x18 but want to be sure because some places I read 8x1,25 which is very close.
2. Barrel says. 90 gr black powder. 451 560 gr bullet, but came with Lyman 450 gr mold, made for Volunteer.....

I would greatly appreciate comments and advices, Lauro

[robertdeans72]

Not quite sure of what your questions are.... The thread size was mentioned and are you asking about loads? somewhere between 70 and 85 gr FFg would be a good range to experiment with.....

Cheers,
Rob

[Pat in Virginia]

Rick Weber can make you a platinum lined nipple and he can do it with a nipple for your choice of musket or rifle caps.

The load recommended by Alexander Henry for his rifle in 1864 was a 530 grain, (paper patched), cylindro-conoidal bullet with 86 grains of Curtis and Harvey No. 6 (today = 86 grains Swiss 1 1/2 F) with a greased (felt) wad - Notes on Rifle-Shooting (May 1864) by Captain William Henry Heaton.


Pat

[bobanderson]

Treat it like a muzzleloading 45-90. I used a 500 grain bullet sized to .451, my lube and 90 grains of Swiss 1 1/2 with a poly wad. I was able to hold a good group on 500 meter ram silhouettes with it.

[lauropicasso]

Rick Weber can make you a platinum lined nipple and he can do it with a nipple for your choice of musket or rifle caps.

The load recommended by Alexander Henry for his rifle in 1864 was a 530 grain, (paper patched), cylindro-conoidal bullet with 86 grains of Curtis and Harvey No. 6 (today = 86 grains Swiss 1 1/2 F) with a greased (felt) wad - Notes on Rifle-Shooting (May 1864) by Captain William Henry Heaton.


Pat
Thanks Pat.
The bullet advised in the barrel 560 gr, might be paper patched. I will try some 450 gr lyman and will see.
Also will take your advise on the nipple and Rick.
In my country musket caps are not available. I either use #11 caps, or MAG SPARK conversion to # 209 shotgun primers. unforunately Marg Spark does not have the conversion for 5/16 x 18 thread my P Hale has.
I was tempted to buy in Buffalo arms a mold lee Shaver 451cal. of 575 grains. Do you have some comment?
Thanks, Lauro from Argentina (lauropicasso@gmail.com)

[lauropicasso]

Not quite sure of what your questions are.... The thread size was mentioned and are you asking about loads? somewhere between 70 and 85 gr FFg would be a good range to experiment with.....

Cheers,
Rob
two different questions. One is related to nipple thread, Now I know is 5/16 × 18 tpi.
Second is bullet weight , because Lyman has for Volunteer Parker Hale a 450 grain mold. (I have one which came with my purchased gun. )
But on the other hand I read on the lower part of the barrel . 451 , 90 gr Black Powder , 560 gr bullet . so I was wondering which is the best bullet for my rifle , and was tempted to buy a 575 gr Lee Shaver in Buffalo arms . Your Comments are more than welcome . This is a new gun for me .
T hanks, Lauro from Argentina (lauropicasso@ gmail. com) .

[robertdeans72]

Hi there,

I use a 500gr Lee Shaver muzzleloading bullet... It is the bullet that I have had the most success with... You definitely need a platinum nipple... Wasting money of you don't use one... It'll just burn out.

Here is a clip on how to use it.... It's in English, I hope that's OK (I see you are from Argentina)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjVz1BVMZks

There are others there that might be of interest, too.

Cheers,
Rob

[Kevin Tinny]

Please tell us where to get platinum lined nipples these days. Many thanks.

[lauropicasso]

Hi there,

I use a 500gr Lee Shaver muzzleloading bullet... It is the bullet that I have had the most success with... You definitely need a platinum nipple... Wasting money of you don't use one... It'll just burn out.

Here is a clip on how to use it.... It's in English, I hope that's OK (I see you are from Argentina)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjVz1BVMZks

There are others there that might be of interest, too.

Cheers,
Rob
Thanks Robert , I write and speak English rather well, I was living and working in your Country several years, till 2010, and since then I am travelling for Business to US and Canada very often almost 6 times a year.
My curiosity is why in the lower part of the barrel is written 90 grain Black powder and "560 gr bullet". Maybe this was for paper path bullet ? with my rifle came a Lyman 450 grain weight, and. 451" size mold . Lyman says it is specifically design for PH Volunteer and to add curiosity there is another Lyman mold for Whitworth with . 452" and 475 gr of weight. Both Groove Greased.
Now I am trying to buy a platinum lined nipple but for # 11 caps , because Musket caps are not available in Argentina and I cannot bring them with my luggage. Thanks ( lauropicasso@gmail.com).
By now I will try with the std nipples and the 450 bullets I have. Fact of life ! .
saludos or cheers

[Smosin]

Please tell us where to get platinum lined nipples these days. Many thanks.

Buffalo Arms sells platinum lined nipples in several thread sizes.
I have a PH Volunteer, an English-made one with Henry rifling, and I shoot that 450 grain Lyman 451114 bullet or a 530 grain Postell bullet, both sized to .451" and lubed with SPG, over anywhere from 65-85 grains of Goex 1fg or that new Olde Enysforde Goex in 1 1/2 fg. As with any bp rifle, some experimentation is in order to produce your most accurate loads.
One day I hope to upgrade the sights in a manner similar to Rob's rifle, and then expect to be shooting the wings off of houseflies at 600 yards, as certainly the rifle is capable of it, if not the operator.
Here is a link to the old Navy Arms Manual that came with the original rifles, as you see they shipped rifles with a Lyman 485 grain bullet mould:
http://stevespages.com/pdf/navy_arms-volunteer-rifle.pdf

[Kevin Tinny]

Thanks for the platinum nipple source info.

[robertdeans72]

Thanks Robert , I write and speak English rather well, I was living and working in your Country several years, till 2010, and since then I am travelling for Business to US and Canada very often almost 6 times a year.
My curiosity is why in the lower part of the barrel is written 90 grain Black powder and "560 gr bullet". Maybe this was for paper path bullet ? with my rifle came a Lyman 450 grain weight, and. 451" size mold . Lyman says it is specifically design for PH Volunteer and to add curiosity there is another Lyman mold for Whitworth with . 452" and 475 gr of weight. Both Groove Greased.
Now I am trying to buy a platinum lined nipple but for # 11 caps , because Musket caps are not available in Argentina and I cannot bring them with my luggage. Thanks ( lauropicasso@gmail.com).
By now I will try with the std nipples and the 450 bullets I have. Fact of life ! .
saludos or cheers


All Parker Hales (the Enfields, the Volunteer and the Whitworth, had a "load" stamped on the barrel).. The Enfields have "3 1/2 drams,....." This is way too much for comfortable, and accurate, shooting in my experience and is almost 30% greater than the service load of 2 1/2 drams (68 grains) yet isn't heavy enough to be a proofing charge,... My point is don't get wrapped up around what is says on the barrel and stick to conventional loading wisdom of around 70-85 grains.... (by 80 things start to become less "fun" and more like work) I don't know why Lyman markets different rounds labeled after these rifles.... The "made for the Volunteer" round is quite short and light... The one "made for the Whitworth" is similar but longer and heavier (as you have noted), yet these rifles have the same twist....1-20". I tried the Postell (Lyman) and it is heavier yet but settled on the Lee Shaver bullet as the logic behind it seemed to my little mind to make sense... All these rounds will shoot once you develop the load for them. Just be methodical in your approach and keep notes. Best of luck in finding a platinum nipple in No 11... Your steel ones will start burning out in a very few rounds... The pressures in these rifles are much greater than those in the Enfields...

Cheers,
Rob

[R. McAuley 3014V]

So Rob, who made this video? I'm ever so curious because the Whitworth rifle muzzle shown at 1:25 to1:31 is not a "small-bore" Whitworth, but the full or "Large Bore" in 26-bore (.568 caliber) rather than .451 caliber as is narrated. If you would like to see what the .568 conical Whitworth projectile looks like, it's the two bullets pictured at the extreme right in the second link below, message #11. This bullet (claimed to have been first used by Metford) is a copy of the Whitworth bullet used in the February 1864 Gun-Maker's Trial and the September 1864 trial against the Long Enfield, fired from 300 to 1200 yards.

http://www.n-ssa.org/vbforum/showthread.php/7509-A-comparison-between-Euroarms-P53-and-Pedersoli-P58-(pictures)/page2?highlight=large-bore

http://www.n-ssa.org/vbforum/showthread.php/9130-Lyman-575213-bullet-mold-base-plug/page2

[robertdeans72]

So Rob, who made this video? I'm ever so curious because the Whitworth rifle muzzle shown at 1:25 to1:31 is not a "small-bore" Whitworth, but the full or "Large Bore" in 26-bore (.568 caliber) rather than .451 caliber as is narrated.......


Thank you Mr McAuley.. So it is.... I made the video and I seem to have included an erroneous image.... Though in my own defence, the narration is not directed specifically directed at that image, indeed, the mention of a "smallbore" occurs sometime after, concurrent with another, more appropriate image.... The images were picked to illustrate the hexagonal bore more than anything and to this end, they seemed to be effective. This video is much about "Small Bore for the Masses" and not intended to be a definitive work with up-to-the-minute techniques and shooting minutiae.

That said, I am one for accuracy (pardon the pun) I will annotate the video with your observation. Thank you greatly for bringing it to my attention....

Cheers,
Rob

PS Interesting research and development of the large bore Whitworth in the other posts..... Well done..

[lauropicasso]

Buffalo Arms sells platinum lined nipples in several thread sizes.
I have a PH Volunteer, an English-made one with Henry rifling, and I shoot that 450 grain Lyman 451114 bullet or a 530 grain Postell bullet, both sized to .451" and lubed with SPG, over anywhere from 65-85 grains of Goex 1fg or that new Olde Enysforde Goex in 1 1/2 fg. As with any bp rifle, some experimentation is in order to produce your most accurate loads.
One day I hope to upgrade the sights in a manner similar to Rob's rifle, and then expect to be shooting the wings off of houseflies at 600 yards, as certainly the rifle is capable of it, if not the operator.
Here is a link to the old Navy Arms Manual that came with the original rifles, as you see they shipped rifles with a Lyman 485 grain bullet mould:
http://stevespages.com/pdf/navy_arms-volunteer-rifle.pdf


thanks for the reply, I'm trying with approximately the same loads and the 450 gr Lyman bullet. unfortunately for me the Black Powder I use is lower quality than yours .
who does the 530 gr postel?
the manual coming with my rifle says 485 grbullet mold , exactly, as the link you advised me to read.
Do you know who does this 485 gr mold advised in the manual?
Do you know the design of the 560 gr bullet referred in the PH barrel? , is this paper patched or Grease Groove .Do you have information of lee Shaver 575 gr @ 451 ?
Do you size bullets or just load them as cast?

the platinum lined nipples for PH are 5/16 x18 tpi. But they are musket caps and in my country only I get # 11 caps.

[Pat in Virginia]

Lauro, you wrote the following into which I will insert my replies:


"Thanks Pat.

The bullet advised in the barrel 560 gr, might be paper patched. I will try some 450 gr lyman and will see.

--- The Brits shot paper patched (PP) bullets almost exclusively in the UK so it is reasonable to assume the
reference on the barrel is for a PP bullet.

Also will take your advise on the nipple and Rick.

In my country musket caps are not available. I either use #11 caps, or MAG SPARK conversion to # 209 shotgun primers. Unforunately Marg Spark does not have the conversion for 5/16 x 18 thread my P Hale has. --- Rick can probably make a nipple that will work with the #11 caps and another that will work with the #209 shotgun primers if you ask him and can give him the dimensions for the shotgun primer nipple.

I was tempted to buy in Buffalo arms a mold Lee Shaver 451cal. of 575 grains. Do you have some comment?"

--- I sure do.The heavier the bullet the heavier the recoil. If you are not going to be shooting more than 600 yards I would stay away from the 575 grain grease groove (GG) bullet. For 300 to 600 yards consider the 545-550 grain GG bullet. For 100 to 200 yards consider using the 500 grain GG bullet. Based on inputs I had from Lee Shaver, I asked Dave Gullo, Buffalo Arms, if he would add the 500 grain version to his line and he graciously consented to do so. It performs well in the P-H Henry Volunteer based on feedback I have had from a fellow in your situation. He took second place in a match with experienced shooters with that bullet on his first time out. You need to make sure the bullet fits well in you bore. MY Birmingham made (early) P-H Volunteer Henry has a .449 bore so I would want a finished bullet diameter of .448 be it PP or GG. If you need sizing dies, as you probably will, to make your finished bullet come out to whatever diameter you need then contact George Gompe, Tennessee Bullet Molds, tnmolds@gmail.com, http://oldfoxtraders.com/TnMolds/. He makes super bullet sizers that work with you normal reloading press. The bullet goes through base first so that it leaves no fins on the base. They are just super smooth sizing dies. With George's sizing dies you can take a .451 GG bullet and size it down for PP bullets at .441-.450. George's dies are very reasonably priced. Think in the $30 range. Lee Shaver and I collaborated with George on dies in this range to make it work out right for long range shooters. Lee reviewed them in his magazine, The Single Shot Exchange.
If you are going to PP then we need to talk about whether you are going to single wrap (Chase patch) or double wrap your bullets. It makes a difference with regard to the sized bullet's diameter.

The P-H Henry Volunteer has a 20" twist that is fine for 600 yards, but not so good when competing against Pedersoli Gibbs rifles with their 16" twist at 800, 900, 1000 yards. So you don't really need to consider the heavier 575 grain bullet for the Volunteer as it probably won't stabilize that heavy a bullet at those ranges well enough to be competitive. The 545 grain bullet would be a much better choice for you in my opinion.

If you want a brass mold for a PP bullet that drops around .446 I can recommend a source for you. It is 530 grains and has a long bearing surface and a nose profile much like Lee’s record setting bullet design - which was based on the nose profile of the Boeing 747.

Pat

[Muley Gil]

This company advertises that they can platinum line YOUR nipple:

http://www.jt-bullet-moulds.co.uk/accessories.html