Practice Target sales at a National Skirmish proposal

[Joe Plakis, 9575V]

I was hoping to get some feedback on a proposal that I was going to put in the August Board Meeting. It involves selling practice targets at the Nationals.

Targets would be:


Printed on a different color paper
Sold for $2 per

(two “bulls-eye” target)
(one “bulls-eye” and one side tile, pot targets)


Unlimited re-entries
No association with the stat-house
Purchased from skirmish staff appointed on the far right side of the line
Targets be hung by the skirmisher
Targets would be removed by the staff
Would only be good for one twenty minute relay only
Must only be shot with one classification of firearm only
Cannot be shot two relays
Targets can be shot, before, during or after shooting your National Qualifying Targets
Revolver would be given only 20 minutes, instead of 30 minutes
Benches would be provided for Revolver Shooters
Range could be utilized from positions 50-67 for practice


What I am looking:
1. Feedback on this idea
2. How many would shoot these targets if you were able to?
3. Please keep it appropriate to the topic and on point

Thanks for all of your help

[Don Branch 12592]

I Think it is a great idea. During the week I'm sure I would shoot at least 5 targets and wouldn't mind even if we did have to shoot our National targets first.

Don

[efritz]

Personally I am not in favor. I appreciate the attempt to provide a source of additional income but I believe it detracts from the accomplishments of all those that came before. From striker on up everyone had the one target, one chance with each firearm at each distance. We already get unlimited sighters. If one can't determine where to aim by then, practice some other time.

Respectively
Eric Fritz

[Lou Lou Lou]

Targets can be shot, before, during or after shooting your National Qualifying Targets


This seems to go against the 60 year principle of one skirmisher, one target. If memory serves, the recent postings all complain of overcrowding and rude behavior with respect to Nationals. This would add to the angst of the situation. If someone is waiting to shoot their only official targets, cold, while you practice for your official attempt, jaws will get tight. I would have to say that I cannot support the idea.

[hp gregory]

boy thats an idea i never thought i would hear. it sure sounds good if it would work. however i doubt that it would. at friendship there are lots of daily matches and lots of chances to shoot practice targets if you desire to do so. they can do that because that match is 8 days long. the nssa national individuals they are only 2 1/2 days long. if you shoot all the differant matches you have to fire 100 scoring shots. thats a lot of shooting. the nssa matches have always been shot military style where you dont have time to mess with your gear. you walk to the line and shoot your 10 shots plus sighters and move on. i think thats a good system for the type of shooting we do.

hp gregory

[ms3635v]

This is an interesting thought. I understand all of the points that Joe raised in his proposal, but I personally believe that it would cause too much confusion and/or distraction to the individual matches. The standing rule of one target per match was obviously designed to create a "level" playing field for all shooters in all classifications. I know when I shoot my individuals if I do well, then I know my practice sessions at my home range were productive...when I have a sub-par performance then I know that more range time is needed. Shooting is similar, in some ways, to other sports, "some days you're on and somedays you're not".

[YOU DON'T KNOW ?]

Let's just sell medals. Then we could free up everything so that we can shoot and enjoy ourselves.

[John Holland]

Twice a year we have a National Match held in Winchester, Virginia, where the playing field is kept level by everyone shooting their targets cold. I am of the opinion that it should be kept that way forevermore.

Now, with that having been said, I do believe it has great potential for Regional skirmishes to adopt. My Region, the North-East, currently has 12 member Units, totaling 194 individual members. At our regional skirmishes individual match participation has been on a general decline for the past five years. My Unit, the 44th New York hosts a Regional skirmish every year, with the one for this year having been this past weekend. The Individial Match competitors numbered 37, a welcome increase over the 29 we had last year. I'm really glad we chose to embrace the 5 man musket team concept because we had 15 musket team entries. If you do the math that's still only 75 people participating out of 194 possible. So, if a Region sets up a novel Individual Match where the Competitors can shoot at paper versions of breakable targets perhaps that could increase the number of individual entries. My thanks to Joe Plakis for the idea!

John Holland
44th New York
Board of Director

[Ian Wright, 1942]

There are a lot of great ideas and comments in the previous posts. Here is another idea for consideration. Realizing that skirmish staffs are limited, it might not be doable, but at least it is a thought. The old WSSA used to rent the range across the road from our entrance to run their skirmishs. Would it be feasible for the association to do so in the future, depending on cost, to either have a place for skirmishers to buy and shoot practice targets away from the main range, thus not tying up vauluable positions there, OR, possibly rent it and extend individual range time on Friday and Saturday so that those who cannot get to the Fort earlier have an opportunity to compete. I know it is hard for students to miss school to get to Winchester earlier in the week, without taking a hit at school. This also could boost individual target sales for the Association.



Ian Wright, 1942V

37th GA

[Mike Hale]

The National matches are no place to shoot unlimited practice targets; we are there to compete....we added classes some years ago because not everyone wanted to compete on a "straight up" basis like we did when I started.

And, there is just too much going on to manage unlimited individuals (from my experience in the stat shack...it would truly be a nightmare).

Keep individuals as they are at the Nationals out of defference to those who went before...and each of us takes our place in the environment as we find it....unless we can use an alternate range (at the entry road) to hold individuals separately?

[kowdok]

A lot of used guns and equipment are sold and traded at a Nats. A practice section on our range would give a buyer a chance to see if he/she really wants to invest in another gun. You'll never convince me that an extra target or 2 will make a noticeable difference in a persons official score. Practice on a weekly to daily basis is what improves scores. I would charge $5 per target to help make the extra work worth the effort. This has been talked about on our team for a long time now, most members being in favor. I think it is well worth considering if the logistics could be worked out to everyones satisfaction. There are quite a number of members on my team who do not shoot individuals, but would shoot these practice targets, especially if they are team target silhouettes. Just my 2 cents.
Kowdok

[Ken Hansgen, 11094]

Kowdoc makes sense to me, except I would offer no targets in the shape of team targets. I do not shoot individuals, but think it would help me on team events to first see where my guns are shooting at Ft. Shenandoah. (An alternate range, as Mike suggests, would also be a help, or just extend the frames to the right as needed.)

[BobbyHannula8450v]

The easy solution to everyone saying selling targets puts extra strain on the host staff is to simply sell them at Doc's Place.

Bobby Hannula
CV Region COmmander

[DanC]

Hey Joe;
I suggested this idea to "the powers" a year or so back when I was running line judging at the National. It was NOT warmly received. The tradition of shooting cold will die hard. BUT! They lengthened the season for most sports, didn't they? So too, post implementation, we'd have an * for records purposes. Big Whoop!

I would only offer targets of a printed 6" tile or pot on a large (SB/100yd) sheet of paper. Cheap and absolutely no way to score it at the stat house. Easy to see elevation and windage errors too.

Down sides are the necessity to set up, printing costs, cash management and a few safeties to pull it off. I like the idea of selling the targets @ Doc's place.

The question to reconcile is: How much revenue would it generate?
There are a myriad of reasons for wanting to shoot at the Nationals, as others have indicated, but will you sell 5,000 targets? 15 positions with 6 shooters each for 10 hours would accommodate 900 per day. You'd need more days or positions... Perhaps an evening session is plausible. Or use the whole range but official targets trump a practice page and can replace it at the discretion of a safety or line judge. Ultimately accommodations would be made.

In the end that might net you $19-20,000 per year. Worth the effort? I thought so.

If it flies, warn people ahead of time. Most don't bring spare ammo.

DanC

[Joe Plakis, 9575V]

All of this is good feedback.... That being said, targets would be printed on different color paper, so they could not be confused. As for the tradition of one target, you are still getting just one target for score. This proposal would make practice available for those who can't get out to a range. It also allows those who live far away to understand the lighting. It is well known that individuals has been down in past years, and the whole range has not been used in years. Just trying to add revenue as well as an asset to shooters.