Single shot or repeater poll

[hp gregory]

i asked if it would be ok to get some ideas on this subject.
single shot and repeater are the only team events that are combined at the nationals. i know a lot of folks have to make a hard choice and choose one or the other. i know there are a lot of you who would like to do both. it seems repeater is shrinking and single shot is growing however very slowly. i have to wonder if they were stand alone events if it would help both of them grow. so the poll question is this;

IF THERE WAS A WAY TO SEPERATE SINGLE SHOT AND REPEATER TO STAND ALONE EVENTS WOULD YOU BE WILLING TO SUPPORT BOTH.

please stay on point and give an honest answer to the above question.

hp gregory
17th va inf

[Wayne Clark]

HP,
I agree. It would be great to do both.
W. Clark

[pastore]

I would like to give single shot a try.

[Jim Wimbish, 10395]

I think that the NSSA is trying to please everyone by cramming too many different events into five days. They have ruined carbine by eliminating phase 2 to pick up 1/2 hour and they are making shooters pick between single shot and repeater. Choices need to be made. All we have succeeded in doing so far is to reduce the quality of some of the events by squeezing the schedule.

[hp gregory]

jim i wonder if you could explain how carbine has been ruined. its shot the same as musket. 3 relays. i would have to ask if you shoot single shot or repeater. if you dont now or dont plan to in the future i dont see how it would affect you. hp

[efritz]

Since giving up repeater team shooting for single shot, I will never return. Having had a potentially devastating accident with my Henry years ago convinced me that the Henry in its current configuration is an unsafe firearm for a rattle battle event. I've been told that in 1866 the Henry was modified with the safety, meaning the firearm cannot go off until the lever is fully retracted. As a single shot firearm the Henry is probably the best cartridge shooting firearm on the line today.

As for the single shot team shooting, slow growth will continue as long as the availability of reproductions is minimal. As far as I know the only repro being produced is the Sharps rifle. All others are converted originals and are becoming rarer. The cost to purchase an original and convert it is prohibitive for many. If in the future repros become available I would expect the interest to swing favorably to seperate the two team events.

I know the moderen day Ballard Firearms Co. has been contacted by several members of the N-SSA and prodded on the subject of producing the Civil War version of the Ballard rifles and carbine but they have shown no interest. I suspect the cost to retool the production set up is too costly even for them.

In conclusion, the lack of single shot firearm availability (thus the lack of team expansion) and a time slot are the two biggest hurdles of having two different team events. But I am in favor of the two someday being seperated. I would also be in favor of starting on Tuesday. Now there's something to chew on.

[Jim Wimbish, 10395]

HP,

Lots of us have discussed this and prefer two 2 hour carbine phases over a single 3 1/2 hour carbine phase. I think that you have touched on a bigger issue which is why I posted. I won't post again on this thread.

[Bob Elka, 12001]

I think if there is any way feasable to try it I'm for it. It would likely increase participation in both events which would be a net gain whats wrong with that.
As for carbine it is a non issue........part of the reasoning behind going to a single phase was to eliminate the whining of one phase possibly having a weather
or condition advantage. I think someday musket will be one phase as well......... As for the topic at hand YES I'm for at least looking into it......As for Ballard ?
Forget it !!! Ballard Rifle Comp in it's curent state is in my backyard and they have less than zero interest in the civil war era Ballards. They are focused on high end
large bore hunting rifles for Africa and what not........... There are several other single shots suitable that have just not been as popular......... In todays manufacturing world
ANY mass produced American made weapon would be expensive.......

[rachbobo]

Count me in also. A few months back I finished building an 1819 Hall rifle in original flint and I'm working on a second one in percussion.

Bill Cheek
Cockade Rifles

[hp gregory]

the idea behind this is to see if there is enough interest to ask that the two events stand on their own. one way to do this is to hold single shot on the far right end of the range after repeater. this would allow mortar to begin setting up on the firing line. after the 100 yd event and you move back to 50 you have two backers to work with. so all of the 50 yd targets can be hung at once. once all the SS targets have been finished the mortar crews can go to 100yds to place their target post and the single shot crews can clean up. due to the way the single shot targets are hung and the speed of the events i think things would move along very quickly. im sure there are other ways to get this done but at present i am looking for people who are interested enough to speak up and say they would support both single shot and repeater. thats the first step before we go begging.

hp

[John Stephens, 11095]

wish it was at different times, it would give me a reason to buy another gun.. Count me in

[rachbobo]

I worked closely with John Holland when I built the 1819 Hall in flint insuring it would get an approval card which I have.
He advised me on the events it could be used in and said that it would be an exercise in futility going up against a Henry.
If I read the rules correctly weapons like the Hall, Sharps, Ballard and others shoot at less targets to try to make it somewhat more fair of a match.
I'd say let the Henry shooters compete against each other and let us diehard's build small teams to start and let our "Old Dogs" bark again, repo or original.
I'd suggest starting with a 3 man team because of the small number of shooters.
If it grows in popularity the team size could increase.
Just a thought.

Bill Cheek
Cockade Rifles

[hp gregory]

the single shots actualy dont shoot against the repeaters. just at the same time. they shoot against other single shots like the wesson rifle, sharps rifles and ballard centerfires. what we are trying to find out is if there are enough people out there that would like to shoot both repeater and single shot so we could ask that they allow the single shots to shoot in their own time frame. that way you can shoot both guns and have twice as much fun.

hp

[MR. GADGET]

wish it was at different times, it would give me a reason to buy another gun.. Count me in

ding ding ding.....

I was on the line, did not pick up this spring for repeaters....
Thinking WTH.... What are they shooting, some are brass ctg and others sharps, some not really sure but it looks fun.....
SO the first thing I did when I got back was to look and see what guns we could use...
Looks like most are sharps, already shoot a carbine, what else, what new...
Not much I can find in the rules about them as to the cal and build info but it sure looks fun and different...
Come to think of it... I'm different.....

So, to answer your question, Yep, I would shoot it, and the repeaters I do know.
There would be no way we would have a team but it would be pick up.
Do you shoot paper with them also?

So maybe I need to start another post not to side track this....
What gun to get and shoot, or to build......?

[Bob Elka, 12001]

I've always shot a Ballard and until just recently never owned a henry. To me, any rifle that is legal for the breechloader individuals that is non-repeating falls in
the single shot category i.e. Ballard, wesson, Sharps RIFLE..... now there are Ballard's carbine in length (22" barrels) that are centerfire breechloaders and fall into this
category. I actually have one Ballard in carbine length that is usable as a breechloader with it's centerfire block, and functional as a carbine with it's percussion ignited
block. I'm gonna guess there are few more weapons like the rarer large frame ballards and some others that just haven't shown themselves on the line. Hilites of the
single shot match are it's fast pace, they're easy to clean, little or no recoil in the case of the Ballards, just plain fun...........

[Sam Sellaro, 12403]

I hope that there is enough interest. I would love to be able to shoot both but the way it stands right now its one or the other. I think that you will be pleasantly surprised in the ammount of teams that would form both. I cannot speak for my whole team but they like the repeaters so i have almost no chance of converting them. (Would be easier if they were held at different times)

[Kenny Hodges 10721]

it sounds like a good idea to be able to have both to attract more shooters thanks kenny

[Tim Lyne]

I'd be up for shooting both.


Tim Lyne
Knap's Batt
#2952V

[Bruce Cobb 1723V]

For those of you who don't know what single shots can be used in N-ssa competition, see the single shot thread.

[ThomasKavanagh]

"... I think someday musket will be one phase as well..."

Please, please, think again.

I well remember when musket was indeed one phase, with FIVE relays. Sometimes there was an hour or more between time on the line. Why do you think we went to two phases.

I also like being able to sleep late on Sunday morning, after Saturday night.

tk
2883v
Wheat's Tigers

[Greg Ogdan 110th OVI]

I hate to be the only spoiler, but I shoot SS and have no interest in repeater.

[Jack C., 69th NY]

I hate to be the only spoiler, but I shoot SS and have no interest in repeater.

Greg, don't worry........... you are not alone.

[Steve Buchanan]

H.P The Eighth would enter both repeater and single-shot team events at Nationals whether they are shot separately or together. Your idea of separating the two matches is definately worth looking at, it has merit and our support. More total teams could be entered meaning more revenue for the Association, this is a good idea. There is enough interest on the Eighth that we'll enter a second SS team by Fall Nationals, unfortunately this means one less repeater team. Single-shot team competition is growing and will grow faster if we could shoot both. I wouldn't expect for it to take off like smoothbore team, simply for the fact that we do not have a reliable arms maker yet (Hint again Larry Romano "build Ballard Rifles"). Yes the Sharps rifles are functional and accurate, but you don't have the luxury of missing as with a Ballard or Wesson. Nice work HP!!!!

Steve Buchanan
Commander
Eighth Virginia

[Fearless Frank]

Remember that one phase Carbine is the way it always was before the 100th Nationals. So that really isn't anything new. Besides with 3 full relays of Artillery in the Fall we would run out of daylight.
What we need is to start the Nationals on the weekend before the Nationals(just kidding).

[Jim Brake 3587]

We first need to lengthen the no. of days

[Bob Chabalowski]

shooting both is interesting and different.I'm in favor of seperate events .I enjoy both .

[Jim_Burgess_2078V]

H.P.: In the individual matches I shoot both Sharps rifle and Henry (Sharps at 50 yds & Henry at 100 yds). I would like to see the repeaters and single shot rifles put in separate classes so I could shoot both arms at both 50 and 100 yards. My team prefers to shoot repeaters in the team match so my Henry gets used more. I'm not sure I could support both repeater and single-shot team matches especially if they are scheduled back to back with smoothbore on Friday. I can lug two guns down to the range at one time but not three.
Jim Burgess, 15th Conn. Vol. Inf.

[hp gregory]

the idea behind this is two fold. first, since smoothbore has become popular you are seeing less repeater teams on the line. i would have to guess that smoothbore is easier and maybe cheaper to deal with than repeater. second single shot is hanging on by its fingernails. it has grown some but the growth is small in comparison to smoothbore. there are lots of reasons for this. lack of reasonably priced guns. ammo can be expensive to load and so on. i figure if we can seperate the two events and get people to cross over it will be good for both repeater and single shot. not only will you get to have more fun by shooting more guns you will get to help stabilize the repeater teams as well as help the single shot teams grow. its not going to work for everyone but i feel there are enough folks out there that would cross over to make it worth while doing. more money for the nssa with little additional work on the host staff. thanks to all who responded. but dont be bashfull if you have an opinion on this lets hear it.
hp

[John Holland]

The SS Team Event is the only team event in the N-SSA that has had an increase of teams enter with each ensuing National, and the ONLY team event that has had 100% participation of teams entered. That shows the dedication of the teams entered. My own Unit, the 44th NY, enters a team in both the "Repeater" match and the Single Shot match.

JDH

[Richard Hill]

The 14th Mississippi shoots SS in May and repeater in October. The same people do both. We'd like to see the two events separated.

Richard Hill
High Private in the rear rank
14th Mississippi

[Edwin Flint]

Beat me to it Richard.

[mike davenport]

I would support the seperation of this match. It would allow more opportunities for us to shoot arms of the War for southern Independance. It is a natural thing for us to do.
mike davenport
comp 5494 dismal swamp rangers

[DaveC]

While i understand the desire to separate the Single Shot Match from the Repeater match, the schedule that we have is very full with them combined. Those that just say we need to separate them, also need to come up with a viable option as to what should go so that you have time to shoot those two disciplines as separate matches.

Dave Cole
12th PRV
10430V

[Rich Foster]

We could shoot the Artillery Match after the Musket match our most prized match and it would bring more spectators on Sunday morning for better recruiting. By doing this it would give us that do not shoot Artillery more time to shoot single shot matches. Of course we would need a louder PA system to give out Awards while the Cannons are going off. Yes I am laughing while I am posting this. Rich Foster

[DaveC]

Rich i am working on the one for Memorial park. but yeah that would help some


Dave