Why Does A Minie Ball Tumble?

[Mike Hale]

Why?
I attached a pic....Rapine .575, sized and soft lead; using 48 grains of 3F Goex at 50 yards on a clear and calm day.....app 2 like this out of app 40 rounds fired?

Why, oh why?

572

[Edwin Flint]

Most likely, the lead is not pure lead. While lead often appears soft, it is not actually pure lead. The bullet also may be too small for the bore. The minie should be no more than .002 under bore size.

If one or both, you can get the key hole shown on the target.

[Bruce Cobb 1723V]

2 other possibilities are: your bullet skirt is uneven or comes apart as it exits the muzzle ( bad casting ) or your muzzle needs crowning.

[Jim Brady Knap's Battery]

That particular bullet style, Hogdon, seems to be on the edge of instability. I used to use it to great effect and won some medals until I started having an occasional keyhole. I checked all the usual causes and wound up blaming the design. The same rifle with the same lead would shoot the 575213 New Style Lyman with unerring accuracy and I could call every shot. After talking to several other shooters and observing the distinctive sideways imprint of this bullet on target backers at times I found out I was not alone and it is something with the bullet design. I understand that you can now buy a different base plug with solves the keyhole problem with the Hodgon bullet style but I will never trust it again. Again I shot some great stuff with it but can't bring myself to ever again trust it to be there when I call a good shot. You have to have faith in your equipment.

Jim Brady
2249V
Knap's Battery

[Fauch125]

I was having the same problem, bullets sized correctly, pure lead. Had the barrel relined by hoyt. Problem dissapeared using same hodgdon mould, same powder charge, same sized bullet. My problem was either the rifling or the crown.

[Mike Hale]

Thank all of you for your insights....I'm using this ball in two different muskets: a Hoyt barrel on a James River Arms Richmond musket and a Whitacre barrel on a Mississippi platform...I am going to mic all again and see if I am within the .002 measure....then maybe back to the new style minie with thin skirt that I have used since 1967.

[John Maderious]

Try pulling the breech plug. Fouling can build up which looks, feels and sounds like steel at the bottom of the bore, so the only way to be sure there is no crud build-up is to pull the plug. Fouling built up on the breech face can cause the problem you describe.
John Maderious

[Blair]

Mike,

Do you seem to have more of a bullet 'keyhole' problem with one barrel than the other?

[Todd Harrington, 3637V]

Excessive leading in the barrel can also cause keyholing

[Steve Sharpe 0236]

What type lube are you using? Not that I think that maters a lot. Also that round in the target did not look like it had been seated well. How many times do you hit the bullet with the ramroad (seat the bullet). That picture did not show much if any deformation of the bullet. I only ping my round once to seat it but I have seen others hit it 2,3 4 times. If the bullet is 2/1000's to small for the bore and not seated well (to make the skirt pickup the rifling) the bullet will bounce down the barrel and start tumbling well before it gets to the target. Just a guess, I hope this helps.

Steve

[ms3635v]

Hey Frank (Mike). I've been looking at the photo you attached for the last two days and I wanted to know if that is a Rapine or Hodgdon minie. I have used both minies over the years and the one in your picture sure has the profile of a Hodgdon bullet and does not appear to have the profile of a Rapine minie. In some cases, the Hodgdon bullet will tumble or keyhole if the powder charge is too light or the lead is too hard. The Hodgdon bullet has a thicker skirt than other style minies but are still good performers providing you use good, soft, lead and the right powder charge. I have recovered Hodgdon minies fromm the backstop at my range and in some instances, upon examination, the minie has little or no rifling engraved in them from firing. My son-in-law was shooting a Hodgdon bullet in his Whiteacre barreled LG&Y, but we changed to a Rapine 580460 Old Style minie and got much better results. The Rapine minie has a thinner skirt and expands very well producing excellent groups and consistent performance.

[bilge water bob]

I had the slightest of dings in the crown of my enfield made by the ram rod, and my hodgdons where 3 to 5 feet off frame at 100 yrds(9 o'clock) or keyholing low left (1 foot).

[pastore]

Check your cast bullets carefully. Sometimes the lowest of the small bands on the Hodgdon will not fill out completely. I will occasionally have a keyhole with a Hodgdon. They were not caused by a light charge, or hard lead, or from being too small. After checking all my cast bullts very carefully, I discovered a few that had that one ring with a slight imperfection. They went back into the pot. Not a single keyhole since.

[bilge water bob]

I've had issues as well with the moulding of hodgdons, especially with the lower bands. now I get the mould alot hotter than I do for other moulds and I have less rejects. I'm wondering if it's the amount of steel, it's a giant block for such a small bullet (RCBS)

[R Filbert]

That pic looks like the same bullet I tried once - As I said ONCE it did the same thing -some swear buy it -I shot mine in a Whitacre barrel some good some not so good Never tried it in a Hoyt though. Seems the best bullet I could come up with after much trial and error was a .580 gardener bullet sized to.576 -It shot absolutly great- I traded for a james river fayettville that had an Owens stock on it -He was a good freind O mine so I had to have it- took it home that evening and sighted it in brought it to a Vet shoot the first time out and shot a 97-4x with it and busted 21 pidgions in a row- thought that was pretty dang good haveing only shot it once before- Any way thats the bullet I use all the time now in all my barrels Whitacre and Hoyt. Never liked that hodgdon- doesnt look like anything they shot back then And many different types of ammo was tried and proven- that gardener being a good Reb bullet will always be my choice-Give it a try in any barrel and I think you will like it! 43 to 45 grns O 3f lanolin and bees wax for lube and dont put it in the base just dip it and hold er steady. X