Swaged or cast?

[ian45662]

We're minieballs Swaged or were the cast back during the civil war?

[Francis J. Miller Jr, 02601]

Ian,

I believe they were done both ways. I have some original unfired minie bullets that have a very pointed nose plus hollow bases, no sign that they were poured for lack of sprue being cut off, plus they have a distinct line "seam" all the way around from base to point, same as our molded bullets, where 2 havles of a "form" or "block" came together, "swaged".


And I have seen gang molds for casting minie's. I think they were 5 gang, that each base plug had like a thumb screw attached to it, for the hollow bases.

[John Holland]

The gang moulds actually predate the Civil War, in both steel and brass. During the Civil War the bullets were swaged by the Union. That is how you get bullets with a "US" in the base cavity, along with several varieties of "Star" designs in the bases. Swaging was the only the Union could deliver hundreds of millions of bullets! The C.S. Laboratories are another story all together. See Dean Thomas latest book "Round Ball To Rim Fire, Vol. 4" for an indepth study of the C.S. Labs.

JDH

[Jim Brady Knap's Battery]

I believe the Federal stuff was termed "Pressed and Turned." They had machinery that had several stages from a lead slug through pressing to shape with a small lathe turning it at the finish. A lot of the spoke based bullets that are seen have the spokes to act as a way to drive the turning of the bullet in the lathe stage. Description and drawings of these machines exist in several books on the subject of small arms and ammunition of the period.

Jim Brady
Knap's Battery


Hey John,

While I was typing you were hitting the submit button. When the thread came up I was surpised since your post wasn't there when I started. That small book Small Arms 1855 that Thomas Pubs did up has some good data on the R&D of period ammo by several original sources including Harpers Ferry and the European Armories.

JB

[gmkmd]

They were made both ways. They had factories with groups of men and women casting bullets by hand, but they also invented powered swaging machines. There is a cool set of books on how Civil War ammunition was made, which shows the swaging machines that were invented and how they worked. They used lead wire which fed into the machines and was automatically cut, swaged under high pressure, and ejected. They were powered by a drive belt, and could crank out a huge number of bullets daily. I'll have to get back to you with the name of the book.

[ms3635v]

If you happen to acquire Dean Thomas's 4 book series of Civil War ammuntion, entitled "Roundball to Rimfire" you will find tons of information on the manufacture of ammunition, both North and South. This set is a great reference tool.

[ian45662]

I have always been curious about shooting swaged minies although I am sure it would be pretty expensive and not all that practical.

[gmkmd]

Yes, that's the book, "Round ball to Rimfire".

Regarding your desire to shoot swaged Minie's; it would be nice but for the simple fact that nobody makes them. I looked into this extensively a couple of years ago. There is a company (Corbin) that makes swaging apparatus for making swaged bullets, and I thought it would be great to swage Minie's like they did in the old days. More accurate and less messy than casting. But alas, they only make swaging dies for smooth-sided, solid-based bullets. To make a hollow-based bullet with grooves in .58 or .69 caliber would require a three piece die and far greater pressure than is used in the current "home swaging" set-up.

[Edwin Flint]

A While back, Southron was making and marketing Swagged bullets. Don't know if he still is doing this.

[ian45662]

Would someone care to pm me his name and phone number so that I may ask him a few questions?

[John Holland]

You can PM him direct yourself as he just posted yesterday http://www.n-ssa.org/vbforum/showthread.php?5124-Historic-Ammuniton/page2

JDH