Unusual ballard rifle

[ian45662]

I was at on of the gun shops I frequent and they had a civil war era Ballard rifle for sale. I asked to see it just for s and giggles and the guy started to tell me that it was a rare one because it starte off as a muzzleloader then was converted to 44 rim fire and that it was one of only 7 to still be around that could be used as a muzzleloader or breach loader. I don't believe anything he told me but I wanted to ask you guys if you have ever heard of such a think. He said the last one of its kind sold for 28,000 but they will sell this one for 2000. I have no ambition on buying it but I just wanted to call his bluff in a bad way but I bit my tounge. Please tell me your thoughts

[Muley Gil]

I have bitten my tongue more than once, hanging around gunshops. I try not to PO folks. Who knows, that dealer might get in something you DO want and he'll give you a break, which he might not do if he considers you a smart a$$.

[Robt. Propst]

Most people don't want their bluff called, or to be educated about such things. My Madrid Enfield that I had parted with became an "unknown Confederate" for $5000. The gunshow dealer explained it was a recent attic find. When I told him him I'd owned it for years and that my serial number was engraved under the butt he failed to thank me for the info. Go figure. Agree wth Gil, or like the penguins in Madagascar: "Smile and wave."

[rachbobo]

If you want some real "Tall Tale" just stop by the Harpers Ferry Flea Market.
A historical site, many tourists visit and fall for the stories some of the vendors tell.
" Why hell son" , this here horseshoe came off of J.E.B. Stuart's horse.
My great great great grandaddy was the town blacksmith and did the job himself.
And this here cane pole is the one J.E.B fished with while his waited for his horse to have new shoes put on.

Sometimes it's fun to play dumb and listen to the tales they tell.

Bill Cheek
Cockade Rifles

[Ron/The Old Reb]

Or like the one I here from a guy back in the 60's. How he took the Nambu he had off a dead Kamikaze pilot.

[Muley Gil]

Gee, I kinda wish I had bought that .43 Spanish rolling block that was stamped "CSA". :p

[John Holland]

Ian - Seriously, it was probably a dual ignition Ballard, rim fire and percussion. The percussion cone in the breech block would have confused him, so he wove a great story to go with it.

The reason for the percussion ignition option was that if a person ran out of ammunition and had no resupply available, all he had to do was make Maynard type cases out of the empty rim fire cases. There were actually Ballard reloading sets that had a mould and a tool to pierce the bottom of the empty fim fire cases. All you had to do was reload the empties and fire them like Maynard!

JDH

[Blair]

I had a friend of mine that was telling me about a '52/'53 slant breech Sharps, he found at a gun show. It was converted to something like one of the big .50 cal. Sharps center fire.
A bunch of great information in this description... Until I stopped him short, and asked him, "How was this the slant breech Sharps converted into a center fire when the breech block is slanted?"
A long silence fallowed... all he could say was. OH!?
And this guy knows firearms but was still buffaloed by the BS.
Just a thought?

[ian45662]

So are these dual ignition ballards rare? I must confess that I am not really familiar with the ballards

[John Holland]

Not rare, just less common.
JDH

[Blair]

What is unusual is an ignition system that involves muzzle loading (I assume) percussion ignition, to rim fire, to centerfire, that can be converted back again to any, or all of those three. That would be very unusual indeed!
Did Ballard do this? I honestly don't know, I don't think it likely for all of the above in one firearm.
Just my opinion....

[RangerFrog]

What is unusual is an ignition system that involves muzzle loading (I assume) percussion ignition, to rim fire, to centerfire, that can be converted back again to any, or all of those three. That would be very unusual indeed!
Did Ballard do this? I honestly don't know, I don't think it likely for all of the above in one firearm.
Just my opinion....

AFAIK, Ballard never did this, but lately there has been a process developed to unscrew the percussion cone (nipple) and replace it with a unit that contains a firing pin and return spring. In this way, you can have a three way ignition system, just not all at one time.

Froggie

[Blair]

The system you are suggesting is not at all new.
I have seen (mostly in shot guns) where a musket size nipple was used with a center fire firing pin contained within. One could replace this with a normal musket size nipple. But, to use the arm as a muzzle loader one had to remove the center fire primer from a shot shell case and install that case in the chambers. The cartridge case allowed for a gas seal in these breech loaders.

Ballard does produce a center fire to rim fire convertible firearms. All one needs to do is reverse the firing pin in the breech block. However, these convertible rim to center fire arms are very specific to the rim dia. of the cartridge cases.
Another words one can not use, and reverse the firing pin for a gun chambers in a .32 cal and have that firing pin work in a .44 cal. There is simply too much of a difference in the rim sizes.
Large rim dia. of cartridges like the 56-50 rim fires would make a three way ignition system, even more difficult. (the third way being percussion?)

[Bruce Cobb 1723V]

I have a saying I have coined and would like to share it with you. "They don't know, what they don't know" ........... Think about it. .......... It fits alot of circumstances in the collectors field and other fields where you know alot more than the person who proclaims themselves to know it all. Pesonally, I know just a little and am thankful for those of you who also know just a little and are willing to share it.

[Ron/The Old Reb]

There is another saying also. If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with BS.

[RangerFrog]

There is another saying also. If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with BS.

Words to live by!

Froggie

[Blair]

The quotes I love comes from Forest Gump.
"Stupid is, as stupid does."
This takes on some new meaning when you apply, "Sometimes, there just aren't enough rocks!"