.69 Trash Can Minie

[hobbler]

Has anyone successfully used a trash can minie in an Armisport .69 musket?
I have been working with a modified .57730 made into a smooth sided .69 minie for paper patching with two length adjustable plugs.
http://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy192/SNARGLEFLERK/alternateplugdesign57730-69paperpatch.jpg
http://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy192/SNARGLEFLERK/57730-69paperpatch.jpg
So far results have not been consistent enough for satisfaction and my suspicion is that failures in the patching are the cause. The addition of shallow bore diameter rings is being considered so I thought I'd pick shooters brains first.

[hobbler]

Just haven't been able to get consistent results.
http://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy192/SNARGLEFLERK/69.jpg

[Muley Gil]

Are you shooting these from a rifled musket or a smoothbore? ArmiSport makes both.

[rachbobo]

The photo caption reads .69 cal 1-66 so I assume it is a rifled barrel.
Interesting project.

Bill Cheek
Cockade Rifles

[Muley Gil]

"The photo caption reads .69 cal 1-66 so I assume it is a rifled barrel."

There you go, assuming I kin read! :(

Thanks Bill.

[William Schoenfeld, 1386]

I would like to find out more about the minie for the 69 rifle musket too but I was wondering why you would use a straight sided one and not have lube rings around it? I would think that it would be better to have the minie expand into the rifling but I am not sure. Also how thick is the skirt on the minie? That may have be another problem your having. Like to hear more about your project!

[hobbler]

Wanted to try the straight side just as a paper patch, thinking that the paper patch would not need grooves. Maybe I just don't have a close enough fit and the minie is "under sized" even though the paper is close to bore diameter. Maybe I need thicker paper.

As a passing thought on this project, during the war there were hollow base designs that did not use lube grooves (bare lead against the bore)...did they have a lead build up problem?

[gmkmd]

A few things don't look quite right to me. The skirt on your bullet looks rather thick, so maybe it isn't expanding adequately. Also, your paper patch looks a bit sloppy. It doesn't look tight enough, and the forward edge is overlaping the shoulder of the bullet. I think that would predispose to uneven/inconsistent shedding of the patch after it leaves the bore. How is the bottom edge of your patch finished? If I'm not mistaken, paper patches were always used with solid bullets, not hollow-based, and the bottom of the patch was twisted and trimmed against the flat (or only slightly concave) base of the bullet. If your patch bottom is being blasted up into the hollow base of your bullet, that would further predispose to inconsistent shedding of the patch.Overall, I think the problem is that you're mixing two different concepts. You can have a hollow-based bullet, or you can have a paper-patched solid bullet, but they never used paper-patched hollow-based bullets.That begs the question; what's the point? Paper patches were used to prevent leading in higher velocity / smaller caliber guns, and the diameter had to be a very close fit. Leading really is not a problem in big-bore, low-velocity guns like the .69 caliber rifle. Also, since there is no lubrication, you have to swab the bore after every shot. This was done in target shooting (and sniper) rifles, not basic combat weapons. In later years, when paper patched bullets were used in military cartridges, they had a lubricated patch and often a grease cookie beneath. For target shooting cartridges, the patch was not lubricated, but the bore was swabbed after each shot.

[hobbler]

After looking further into the flat sided hollow based bullets used in the P-51 Enfield the basic problem became obvious. The patched bullets were dipped in beeswax, not only providing a lubed surface but also making the surface less prone to being damaged before sailing out of the business end. In the beginning the British used 6:1 beeswax to tallow but changed it too just beeswax. And, the dropped relic bullets recovered from battlefields confirmed the proper length, an inch give or take a smidgeon.