Euroarms Zouave problem

[chowey]

I have a Zouave rifle from Euroarms that is making me crazy.

I purchased it several years ago - but have just recently had a chance to begin to shoot it.

I bought it so that I could join the N-SSA but can't get the thing to shoot consistently.

Here are some of the problems I've had:
1. the front sight shot WAY to the left the first few times I took it out. a gunsmith moved the sights but they ended up having to be slanted considerably off the center line of the barrel to the right.

2. as a day of shooting progresses - even though I've been benching it - the first shots seem to group well - but then they start to go all over the paper - left right up and down - seems no pattern except they start to move - and not by a little - from one side of a standard 50 yd bull to the other.

Has anything like this happened to anyone out there? I haven't found anything that suggests this is usual for a Euroarms Zouave.

I'm about ready to scrap this thing.

Thanks for any advice.

[Des]

We really need to know a couple of things. What bullet you are using, and what lube. What powder and what charge of powder.

[Francis J. Miller Jr, 02601]

Chowey,

Welcome, Are you presently a member of the N-SSA? If you are, then you should have team mates that can help you. If not, what state do you live in, you probably might have an N-SSA member just down the road willing to help.

First off don't scrap the musket. It'll probably turn out to be a good shooter, you'll just have to do some basic things to bring it around.

First, have the bore measured to see what the actual bore size is. The minie ball should then be sized 1 to 2 thousands under that size, no more than that. The bullet must be pure soft lead so it expands properly to seal and contact the rifling. A minie made from hard lead will not expand correctly, and you will have bullets all over the board, and won't group worth a darn. Start a load at about 35 grs. (2ff or 3ff) and see what it does, and then work up different loads, 38, 40, 43, 45 grs. and so on, to see which one groups the best. Then get your sights straightened out. Most skirmishers have the small stock front sight taken off (because it will shoot way high) and put on a taller competition front sight.

Hope this helps you. For sure there will be other members jumping in here to help you out also. Don't get discouraged, it will eventually work out.

[Lou Lou Lou]

Where are you located? Usually there is someone nearby, who can assist.

[Fauch125]

A few years ago I bought a dixie gunworks Miroku Springfield with the intent of hunting. Did a bunch of internet reading, took the musket to the range with some minie balls I bought from Dixie (size unknown), triple seven powder (works in my inline, why not), and TC bore butter to throw on the minies before dropping them down the tube. Went straight to the service load for powder measurement. Needless to say I had a tough day at the range. I had hunted for several years with an inline w/o difficulty, assumed the poor accuracy and and fouling problems were the result of 19th century tech.
Long story short (I know, too late), I contacted a former proffessor for advice. He invited me to Winchester Va. in October to have my questions answered. Had no idea what I was getting myself into.
Moral is, don't worry about the musket right now, join an N-SSA team first. You'll have teammates and regional competitors with decades or multiple generations of experience that can help you get the rifle to its potential. Find a good shooter and copy them, its the sincerest form of flattery and cheaper than re-inventing the wheel yourself :D

[Jim Brady Knap's Battery]

A simple thing like a loose tang screw can be a major problem too.

Jim Brady
2249V
Knap's Battery

[David Disher 12143]

Make sure that you don't have a re-enactors nipple in the gun. Remove the nipple and if it has a large hole at the base, change it out. Secondly, make sure you try different bullets in the gun...don't assume that if you tried a regular .58 minie, that is the only thing it can shoot. You may need to try different bullets, and definitely will need to work up the right charge.

Best of luck,

David Disher

[Jim_Burgess_2078V]

The fact that your first shots out of a clean barrel seem to group well but your shots tend to open up the more you shoot suggests that bore fouling is affecting accuracy. A number of factors can contribute to bore fouling: a bullet that is either too small for the bore (more than .002" under bore size) and/or too hard and won't expand properly into the rifling (minies must be the softest lead you can find). Inadequate lube on the bullet (poor quality and/or quantity of grease) could also be the problem. The bullet lube serves to keep the fouling soft so the expanded minie bullet of soft lead can remove the bulk of fouling from the previous shot as it exits the barrel. Without adequate lube, hard fouling tends to build up near the muzzle. This destroys accuracy by causing you to pound hard on the ramrod, deforming the bullet when loading, and it also affects how the bullet leaves the muzzle. Be sure you are using a soft lube designed for black powder and not a relatively hard grease or wax designed for cast bullets in more modern firearms. Some skirmishers, myself included, not only dip their bullets in melted lube to cover the exterior grease grooves, they also fill the hollow base with Crisco or some other soft grease. More lube = less fouling. At least that has been my experience. Don't give up on the gun. With persistence you will find the right load to feed it for consistent groups.
Jim Burgess, 15th CVI

[chowey]

WOW! Thanks for so many responses - I hope this is an OK way to reply to everyone at the same time.

Thanks for the responses.

Here’s some more information – probably more than any of you want:

About six years ago I got a person’s name to contact regarding joining the Indianapolis, IN chapter of the N-SSA. I was able to go over to the house of the President of the group who’s home served as the shooting range for the group. One of the members lent me a Mississippi River Rifle of his (for the 15 years before that I had shot mostly a .36 cal. Squirrel rifle during my participation with the Conner Prairie Rifles – a combination re-enacting and shooting club then hosted at one of the nation’s famous “living history” museums. I have several other percussion rifles but my gun of choice then was the Poor Boy).

I had a chance to shoot under the assistance of several of the club members and decided I really liked that style of shooting. I went out a couple of weeks later and bought the uniform and rifle. I came back another week and tried my new gun – I couldn’t hit a thing (the guys had seen me shoot before and knew I wasn’t as bad as I looked with my new rifle. A couple of them tried it with no success either.


During that time I was shooting what mics out as a .5755 minie with 35 grains of FF Goex.


The distance between the flats of my barrel mic out at .5775.

The guys suggested I take the gun to a friend that is a BP gunsmith (who had at one time also owned and shot a Zouave).

We tested the rifle on his range with paper targets over a bench and first noticed the pattern I mentioned in my first post. The first few rounds would group pretty well – though all to the left and low – then they’d start to pattern all over the target.

Over two days we tried three different charges of FF Goex powder - 35, 45 and 60 grains at 25, 50 and approx 70 yards (all loads at all ranges). Some series we swabbed between shots – some series we didn’t – no difference in patterning either way. Usually a session was from 10-15 rounds with at least a minute between rounds.


Not even the higher load brought impact up close to the bull.

The final result was that I ordered a new front sight from Lodgewood (their “High Front Sight) and that got soldered on – but at a considerable slant, as I mentioned).

I wanted to get the gun shooting well before I went back and joined up.

Then “real life” interfered. My job changed. I worked different hours. I let my gun club membership lapse because I just couldn’t get there anymore, etc, etc.

Now – seven years later I have the time and gun club membership back – but have lost all my contact info on the Indianapolis N-SSA group. I don’t even know if they’re still around – or if they are – where they’re shooting.

When I started shooting the Zouave again recently I now have the High Front sight attached – so my elevation isn’t even a concern at the moment – the consistency of impact is still all over the place, though.

During the shooting that was done seven years ago I was using minie balls I got from my friend the gunsmith that were .5755. He lubed them – but I’m not sure with what after all this time.


I’m lubing what I shoot now with Crisco – both around the grooves and in the base.

Over about 6 sessions of shooting I’ve gone through about 100 of the .5755 minies and about 25 of a new .5765 minie that I’ve been casting myself using a Lyman mold.


Most recent session was using 60 grains of FF Goex. Session before that I tried (just for giggles) 40 grains of FFF Goex.

All the bullets were made using pure, soft lead. I’m not sure of the weight of either of the bullets.

I hope this puts things in better order for all of you that were kind enough to respond.

Thanks a lot –

Chris



I have a Zouave rifle from Euroarms that is making me crazy.

I purchased it several years ago - but have just recently had a chance to begin to shoot it.

I bought it so that I could join the N-SSA but can't get the thing to shoot consistently.

Here are some of the problems I've had:
1. the front sight shot WAY to the left the first few times I took it out. a gunsmith moved the sights but they ended up having to be slanted considerably off the center line of the barrel to the right.

2. as a day of shooting progresses - even though I've been benching it - the first shots seem to group well - but then they start to go all over the paper - left right up and down - seems no pattern except they start to move - and not by a little - from one side of a standard 50 yd bull to the other.

Has anything like this happened to anyone out there? I haven't found anything that suggests this is usual for a Euroarms Zouave.

I'm about ready to scrap this thing.

Thanks for any advice.

[Eggman]

Dear Chewey,
I had the exact same problem for years with a Zoli Zouave I inherited from a great friend who only shot round balls for hunting out of it. I have a Euroarms three band Enfield that shoots the proverbial one hole groups all day with a .575 Lyman Old Style ahead of 35 grains fffg. That load/bullet combo did the exact same thing in my Zouave as it's doing in yours.
On the line I often see folks shooting the Lyman .575 wadcutter so I decided to try it. Again the same result - all over the paper after three shots. So in a condition of great frustration I started increasing the load by small increments. Then at 48 grains, out of the blue so to speak -- a one hole group. It maintained the same large hole over and over and over and over nonstop without cleaning.
I believe in lots of lube too (Maximus Lubricus, Slikum Bullicus).
MAY THE FORCE BE WITH YOU!
Eggman

[RonT]

I also have a 68' vintage Zoli Zouave that had the same shooting characteristics. Had to move the front sight ~1/16" to the left and add ~1/8" to the height.
Finally (!) settled in with a 460 gr. minie and 50 gr. of 2f with liberal (!) lube (Beezwax/Olive Oil).
Hang in there...
R

[Eggman]

Yeah Ron I installed a new higher front sight on the original base which scribes an arc to the left. This is a workable solution providing you can stand the jeers and abuse from your teammates.

[chowey]

Thanks for the ideas. I'll go back and see what I can do with some loads between 40 & 60 gr.

I've also had some suggestions to glassbed the tang and barrel that seem like good ideas.

I appreciate all the good advice.

Chris

[RonT]

One other thought. The front barrel band on mine had a habit of disconnecting on an irregular basis, IE: not every shot. I squared up the leading edge of the band and "tweeked" the retension spring...solved that problem.
Cheers,
R

[George Gompf]

Chewey, and members
A lot of has been said about the bullet, powder load and lube. However, it is entirely possible that the problem is a poorly bedded barrel. A little work with some glass bedding may do wonders. Of course it could be the powder, bullet or lube too.

A good friend says all muskets are female. No two like the same thing, all want to be pampered and have their very specific preferences; they are fickle and just when you think you have them figured out, they change on you. Fortunately, you can have more than one musket, contrary to the rules applied to the ladies. However, like the ladies, they will keep you broke trying to buy them the little things they want.

It’s all part of being a musket shooter. If it was easy everybody would be doing it. As it is, only us hard headed individuals keep beating our heads against the wall trying to get that perfect combination that gives us the little one hole group. The rest give up and go off to be re-enactors.

George Gompf
Forrest Escort CO.
Deep South Region