Ballistic gelatine tests of civil war rifles

[Space Cowboy]

Hello Freinds,

I am maybe a bit too "deep" into the history and performance of 19th century service cartridges. I made some tests simulating the 100 m (110 yards) impact of two civil war rifle muskets: a Lorenz M1854 Jager and a U.S. 1863 Bridesburg rifle musket. I shot both guns with the original cartridges, and made a video about the tests, hope you'll enjoy it!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PifleEwbeko

Anf here is my question to you: do you have any info about wich bullet was used for the Lorenz rifles in the Civil War? Did anyone use the original compression bullets?

cheers,
SC

ps: sorry for my English on the video. :)

[Jim Brady Knap's Battery]

Interesting video. Thanks for posting it.

Jim Brady
2249V
Knap's Battery

[Dominic Infante, 8359V]

Space Cowboy:

According to one of my reference books (George A. Hoyem, The History and Development of Small Arms Ammunition, Vol. 1, Armory Publications: Tacoma, 1981) --"The Swiss after experiments ... settled on a shallow-groved semi-hollow based bullet in the remarkably small caliber of 10.4mm (.409in) which made their Federal rifle adopted in 1850 the longest range, most accurate military rifle of the day" (p. 32). Unfortunately, the length and weight are not given.

I enjoyed the video and would encourage you to produce others when new reproductions become available. No need to apoligize about your English. It is very understandable.

[Maillemaker]

Cool video. I enjoy your videos!

Steve

[RangerFrog]

Good job. Makes me want to go out and run some similar tests on my Zouave. Also makes me want to get back to visit Budapest again, because it looks like you're having fun there!Best regards,Charlie ShaeffRangerFrog

[Don Dixon]

Space Cowboy,

I'm on travel, and do not have access to my files at home. However:

The Federals used their standard ".54 caliber" Minie ammunition in their System Lorenz Austro-Hungarian (k.k. Army) arms. The bullet was nominally .537 inches, which made it .011 inches smaller than the .547 inch bore diameter in the k.k. Army System Lorenz arms. And, they used 50 grains of musket powder compared to the 62 grains of musket powder contained in the k.k. Army cartridges. Consequently, it was no surprise that Federal soldiers complained that their System Lorenz arms were inaccurate. The problem was not the k.k. Army weapons, but the stupidity of the Federal Ordnance Department.

The Confederates imported k.k. Army cartridges. To that extent, they used the k.k. Army compression bullet. They had Eley manufacture "Austrian" cartridges in Great Britain. They imported k.k. Army bullet moulds, presumably for compression bullets. Bullets which would appear to have come from the k.k. Army gun-cotton cartridges, or bullet moulds for those cartridges, have been recovered from Confederate camps. And, they used .54 caliber Minie bullets. However, the Confederate .54 caliber Minie load was 70 grains of musket powder, which would have caused an under sized bullet to slug up better than the 50 grain Federal load. So, in Conferate use there appears to have been a wide variety of ".54 caliber" cartridges used in the System Lorenz arms.

I have thought that the System Lorenz bullet was a more ballistically efficient bullet than the Minie, which your test would appear to support. Interestingly, European military medical literature following the 2nd Italian War of Independence/Austro-Sardinian War of 1859 indicates that the System Lorenz bullet was significantly more humane than the Minie in that it tended to cause much less spintering when it hit bone.

Regards,
Don Dixon
2881V

[bilge water bob]

Very well done video. Thanks for posting it.

[Gary Van Kauwenbergh, 101]

Outstanding! Your english is fine. Keep them coming.

[Jim Mayo]

Space Cowboy,

The Confederates imported k.k. Army cartridges. To that extent, they used the k.k. Army compression bullet. They had Eley manufacture "Austrian" cartridges in Great Britain. They imported k.k. Army bullet moulds, presumably for compression bullets. Bullets which would appear to have come from the k.k. Army gun-cotton cartridges, or bullet moulds for those cartridges, have been recovered from Confederate camps. And, they used .54 caliber Minie bullets. However, the Confederate .54 caliber Minie load was 70 grains of musket powder, which would have caused an under sized bullet to slug up better than the 50 grain Federal load. So, in Conferate use there appears to have been a wide variety of ".54 caliber" cartridges used in the System Lorenz arms.

Regards,
Don Dixon
2881V

Here is a sample of what a Mississippi Regiment had along the Blackwater River in Va. Found these in a campfire at a picket post.

I wonder, since the 575 OS round is closer to an original round in shape and weight than the example used in the video, would that make a difference in the performance?

[Jim Mayo]

Here is another example of a solid austrian which was fired. Recovered from Petersburg.

I also find your videos very informative and enjoy them.

[Space Cowboy]

Thanks for the pics. This bullet seems a bit different. The compression grooves of the Lorenz bullet are deeper, and they has a different shape. Was this bullet shot with paper patching or greased grooves?

Here is a pic about the original bullet. I scanned the pic from the original Lorenz manual:
324

Regarding the OS versus other design: the stability of the bullet in the gelatine is depending on where the center of mass of the bullet is. If it is in the back, the bullet will try to turn in the gellatine, if it is close to the front, it will go straight. So it depends on the form of the skirt I think in the case of these Miniés.


If you compare the effect of the Lorenz bullet to the Minié, you can see this difference. The Lorenz turned 90 degrees on the last 10 cm-s, because when it compressed, the center of weight travelled towards the center of the bullet => tso it turned easier.