Lorenz Rifle

[mb3]

I was thinking about increasing the size of my Civil War (reproduction) collection, and decided I would like to have an 1854 Austrian Lorenz rifle. Has any manufacture started to make a good reproduction rifle in .54 cal? I wouldn’t mind getting an original, just not sure the wife would go for the $5k price tag.

[Blair]

mb3,

I must tell you that you are not the only one looking for a good Lorenz Rifle.
Unfortunately, no one is producuing anything that migh be considered a 'good' one, except those involved with doing restoration of the originals.
As a rule, these wont be 'cheap'.
Please stay away from the Inda made "Lorenze" reproductions. By the time you get through paying for the approved barrles for these... they wont be 'cheap' either.
Just a thought on my part,

[Southron Sr.]

5K for a Lorenz????

Geeze! They have gone up in price!!!!

Historically speaking, thousands upon thousands of Austrian Lorenz Rifles were sold to both agents of the North and South during the Civil War. Lorenz Rifles were widely issued out to both Union and Confederate troops, especially in the Western Theater of the war. Only the Enfields exceeded in numbers the total number of Lorenz Rifles imported during the war.

In actual fact, the Re-Enactment community has been trying to get at least one of the Italian manufacturers to come out with a decent Lorenz for around a dozen years now. At one time I heard that petitions were being circulated at re-enactments and re-enactors were signing them in droves. The petitions were addressed to an Italian manufacture or manufacturers literally begging them to come out with a decent reproduction of the Lorenz.

Then a well known and highly respected sutler (who knows the re-enactor and skirmisher markets very well) tried to get production of a replica Lorenz started, but that failed due to a variety of reasons beyond their control. It was, however, not for lack of potential sales though.

I can guarantee you right now that there are production drawings of a replica Lorenz Rifles stored in the engineering department of at least one or more of the Italian replica manufacturers. The problem is that none of the Italian manufacturers realize what an untapped "Gold Mine" in sales they are sitting on because a good quality replica of a Lorenz Rifle would set sales records for a replica firearm.

Of course, the supreme IRONY of the replica market is that Italian manufacturers still turn out scads of Zouave Rifles, even though Zouaves have been BANNED from most re-enactments for decades!!!!

Maybe. Maybe, Maybe by the Bi-Centennial of the Civil War (2061-2065) at least ONE Italian manufacturer will have figured out the score and produce a high quality replica of the Lorenz Rifle!!!

P.S. But don't hold your breath waiting for that to happen.

[Jim Mayo]

You should be able to get a decent Lorenz in the 1500 dollar range. Keep an eye out here http://collegehillarsenal.com/store/ as he seems to have one now and then.

[mb3]

Thank you all for the information. I saw some of the Indian made ones and they most definitely don’t fit the bill. I guess they are smooth bore 62 cal? Jim thank you for the link I will check in on that site from time to time.

[ken chrestman]

I bought a really nice 1854 Austrian Lorenz from csarms.com, Cliff Sophia, he is at every Nationals and can be trusted, nice guy.

Ken Chrestman FEC
Tennessee

[rachbobo]

Go to Gundersonmilitaria.com . Scroll through Antique long arms. There is one under International firearms that was converted to flintlock for $1,050 .
Then scroll down to Civil War and there are 2. The first is in not that bad a shape for $350 and the next is in poor shape for $175.

I have bought a number of things from them in the past and had no problems or bad surprises. They are out of Lake George NY

Bill Cheek
Capon Bridge
WV

Actually you might want to give the repro ones another look. This one just sold on GunBroker:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIt ... =239498999 (http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=239498999)

I've never handled one, but it doesn't seem to look too bad. And at that price, even after you pay Bobby to line it in your choice of caliber, the price is not bad. The key is whether the SAC will approve it.

[Don Dixon]

Regarding the above posts:

The "Lorenz" advertised in the Gunbroker auction is one of the Indian made reproductions sold by the Canadian firm Loyalist Arms. See elsewhere in this forum the photograph of the Indian made "Enfield" that blew up firing a blank.

The Lorenz converted to flintlock: After the M 1854 family of Austro-Hungarian weapons became obsolete, many of them were converted by the Austro-Hungarian Army to single shot breach loader using the Wänzel System (a system conceptually similar to the U.S. Army's trapdoor 50/70 and 45/70 rifles). After the Wänzels passed out of service, many of them were purchased as surplus by the Liege, Belgium, gun trade and converted to flintlock for sale to the natives in Africa. This often involved removing the Wänzel breach section, and screwing or welding on a replacement flintlock breach section. The welded "firearms" are of VERY DUBIOUS SAFETY. Additionally, they cannot be readily converted back to percussion (you would need a purpose built percussion breach section, and the barrel, if otherwise serviceable, would have to be lined). The Wänzel rear sight, lock mounting system, and the front sling swivel mounting system are also wrong for American Civil War era arms.

These are not solutions for the purchase of a "Lorenz" for N-SSA or reenactment useage. The Small Arms Committee should not approve a reconverted Wänzel for N-SSA use. On the other hand, Cliff Sophia at CS Arms, and Tim Prince at College Hill, are reliable sources of original arms.

Blair: Ritter Josef von Lorenz did not spell his last name "Lorenze."

Regards,
Don Dixon
2881V

[DAVE FRANCE]

mb3,

I have a 54 caliber repro Lorenz, with an extra original lock, and some original lock parts. I will look it over and send you more information on your PM.

David

I would think that once a repro Lorenz has had the bore lined, the safety issues would be eliminated. No?

[GPM]

I wouldn't trust it. As already mentioned some of these india made guns have come apart with blank loads. Try the link to College Hill already posted on this thread. Tim just listed a nice Lorenz and he is a great guy to deal with.

[GPM]

Forgot to mention. I also seriously doubt Bobby Hoyt or Dan Whitaker would re-line one of the India barrels.

[Edwin Flint, 8427]

With regard to these India prop/decoration items, The only way I would shoot them is with a new barrel made by Hoyt or Whitacre, or other legit barrel maker.

[Blair]

Don,
Thank you for the correction.
I hope I have edited my message to better suit subject matter?
--------------------------------------

Ed,
And the only way that would be possible in N-SSA competition would be if the rest of the un-gun measured up to the specs.
These thingies wont like many other offering from this Importer.
But, how the "Smoke Blowers" love the cheap price. They can pay for a lot of handsown button holes for what they can save on one of these thingies.

[ken chrestman]

.54 M 1854 Lorenz original on www.collegehillarsenal.com (http://www.collegehillarsenal.com) Tim Prince knows his imported muskets and is at most CW shows.

Ken Chrestman,FEC 7147V

[tcsg25]

I have a actual, original Lorenz Rifle, it is the real deal. I just have no way of knowing its value.541542

[RaiderANV]

Someone else will have to answer the what it's worth question. But,,,,,,you can buy the original rear site that your missing from Lodgewood. 262-473-5444