1847 musketoon from loyalist arms ?

[colddragoon]

Has any of you had any thing to do with this company? Do they make a good product? I happened to be surfing for a musketoon and this came up.

[pastore]

Loyalist Arms deals mostly in movie prop look alikes. I don't believe their barrels are proofed, and may not be safe to fire live ammo.

[Blair]

Loyalist Arms does, or at least did offer, firearms made by Armi Sport, Euroarms and Pedersoli. All of these will come with the standard Italian "proof" requirement. Arms such as the P-1853 Enfield types may have been imported as smooth bores. This is because they tend to cater to the reenacter types more so than the competition shooters.

The M-1847 Cavalry Musketoon they produce is based off of the M-1842 Muskets they are having manufactured and imported from India.
These have the look of the '47 series of Musketoon's but are all very much oversized because of the usage of M-1842 furniture.
The '47 series of Musketoon's should be based off of the furniture sizes of either the M-1841 "Rifles" or the "Cadet Model" series of the 1842 muskets as were produced at Springfield Armory.
Blair

[Southron Sr.]

Everyone keep in mind that the organizers of the 150th Manassas Re-enactment have BANNED Indian made Enfields from the field because several have blown up at previous re-enactments. My understanding is that the company in India that makes the faulty Enfields also makes the 1847 Musketoons.

[Blair]

Southeron, Sr.,

I can't speak for what has or has not been ban from the up coming 150th event cycles'. I havent seen any kind of a list, but then, I haven't been looking either.
I can say that I doubt they will be, primarily because those sponsoring/putting on these events, generally have no clue as to what or why these Indian made thingies should be ban.
You are, however, correct in that the so called 1847 Musketoon is imported from India without the touch hole in the vent being drilled. They are not proof tested! Can't have been proofed!
Even with the size variation being totally wrong for this supposed "gun". I would suggest extreme caution as to the overall safety.
Blair

[Edwin Flint, 8427]

Loyallist sells both Italian made and Indian made arms. I would not shoot even a blank in the Indian made imports until they start proofing them in an independent proof house. Watch these guys because they will tell you the guns are safe and offer a "proofed" gun for an extra fee. Turns out they "proof" in house and only to the least standard. These guns will not stand up to the Italian proof house standards.

I hope they do ban them as they are an accident waiting to happen in my opinion.

If they were safe, they would come with vents drilled and proofed.

[Southron Sr.]

India has some very strict "Proof Laws." Obviously, the Indian company that manufactures those "1847 Musketoons" are exploiting a loophole in the law OR are in direct violation and could care less.

[Blair]

These things are being made up as non arms, decoration, wall hangers
As a piece of decorative furniture they, the Indian shops that make these things, don't need to construct them with the same quality control as a real firearms.
Why do people buy them? They are cheap! And, of course, "everybody" knows shooting blanks doesn't cause any harm or damage.
Blair

[Southron Sr.]

#1 I met a young man down at Old Fort Jackson in Savannah in the early 1980's and his right shoulder and arm was in a cast.

He was a Rev War re-enactor and he had been firing his Japanese Brown Bess in Volley Fire. What he didn't realize was that his Bess wasn't going off, so he just kept reloading BLANK CHARGES in it.

When the gun finally did go off, it sounded like an artillery piece being fired and the RECOIL BROKE HIS SHOULDER!

Yeah, Yeah, I know this is an extreme example but never underestimate what blanks can do. By the way, his Brown Bess was uninjured by the massive overload. Ever since then I have had a lot of respect for those Japanese repros!

#2 Back in my military school days at GMC we went on training missions in the woods. Of course, we were dressed in our fatigues carrying good ole M-1 Garands the army issued us along with 80 rounds of M1909 .30 Caliber BLANK AMMO each.

The blank ammo had a cardboard wad that closed off the mouth of the cartridge case and kept the powder inside of the brass cartridge case. A cadet at North Georgia College was KILLED BY A 1909 BLANK during a training mission.!

An "Aggressor" cadet stuck a Garand in his back and pulled the trigger. When the Garand fired, the cardboard wad went thru the cadets back and lodged in his heart.

So, in other words-blanks can be VERY DANGEROUS under the right circumstances.

[Muley Gil]

At Auburn University in the early '70s, my fellow Marine midshipmen and I encountered a copperhead during a field problem. Blank rounds from a M14 will kill a snake.

[R. McAuley 3014V]

At Auburn University in the early '70s, my fellow Marine midshipmen and I encountered a copperhead during a field problem. Blank rounds from a M14 will kill a snake.

So Gil, did you grill the snake or just eat it raw, Marine-style?

[Muley Gil]

"So Gil, did you grill the snake or just eat it raw, Marine-style?"

Why, raw, of course! Green

OOH-RAH!

[R Filbert]

Guys -yall gotta quit pickin on these guys! Read what they say! Their not wall hangers -they do this for shiping purposes- that way they can send them to England and other non gunners who dont allow working arms in folks possesion. Dont know about vents in a 42 or 47 but they dont do it in flint guns. They claim the steel in these arms compaires to 1040 hot rolled cold drawn steel which should test good for BLACK POWDER ONLY! Not totaly sure of tincile strength but will check in to it- I believe they say 85000? or something to that efect. As for proofing? Do all oure barrel makers proof every one? I doubt it! These guys tell what load to proof with and say they stand behind it! Not the gun I mean- but the barrel -Dont proof a barrel in the stock - if it does POP then there goes the wood and all other bits. Proof em corectly and dont hold em- saves bodily damage and stuff like that. As for those Cheezy Indian Enfields - A good gun conisuer sould be able to look at the quality of them and say no to buying em. Be Nice Boys an let the poor folks play- You know what they say about opinions! Its all good Happy Huntin!

[Edwin Flint]

Mr. Filbert:

You sure are trusting sole! I you accept the word of folks that are unwilling to have their products INDEPENDENTLY tested at the international standards. I do not assume anything about guns of questionable origin.

I have no objection to poor folks joining us. No one does in our organization. What we don't want is to stand next to cheap guns that explode and sends a piece of shrapnel into my neck.

Our group openly offers used quality guns for sale in the $300-500. range to get folks going. We encourage this because the firearm is already worked up and helps them shoot better quickly preventing the newbie from getting discouraged. These are in the same range of price as your pipe bombs, even cheaper.

You can talk about their(mfg. & dlr.) claims all you want but until the maker of these decorations puts their name on the piece and goes through the safety requirements for internationally shipping firearms, they are no more than decorations. BTW, I did listen to them,THE MFG. CALLs THEM DECORATIONS!

BTW, the interenational BP standard load for proofing is NOT what they tell you. It is different for Rifled and Smoothbore barrels. It is about double what they tell you to proof it.

[Maillemaker]

R Filbert:

You may want to take a look at the below post:

http://www.n-ssa.org/vbforum/showthread.php?2396-Who-is-the-maker-and-Small-Arms-approval&p=21264&viewfull=1#post21264

These replicas are sold as decorative items!


they do this for shiping purposes

Yes! They are intentionally marketing, manufacturing, and shipping them as non-firearms!

In my opinion, anyone who takes one of these gun-shaped-objects and converts it to fire is really taking a big risk. I personally would not stand next to anyone shooting one.

Steve

[Mike w/ 34th]

So, they just say these things are "decorations" to get around government regulations, and that somehow makes the dealers trustworthy?

They're lying to government agencies in multiple countries, so they must really be completely open and aboveboard, because they're confessing to you that they lied to the guys who could throw them in prison? This is actually a common technique in confidence scams. It's called "letting the mark in on the secret". In this case, if you're buying the gun, you're the mark.

It's really hard going through life as such a skeptic, but clearly someone has to.

-Michael