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Michael Bodner
04-12-2011, 03:28 PM
OK. The clean-out screw on my Smith has popped out for the last time.

Does anyone have any experience with personally plugging this hole? I'm thinking brazing, but I need some detailed advise: Like how do you not destroy the case-hardening on the receiver?

How have you solved your clean-out / blow-out screw problem??

Thanks

-Mike

marv762
04-12-2011, 06:01 PM
I had mine drilled out and tapped with a thicker and longer screw. No problems in six years. Marv

Lou Lou Lou
04-12-2011, 07:36 PM
That is the best solution

Southron Sr.
04-13-2011, 02:01 AM
I agree that drilling out the old screw hole and re-tapping to a slightly larger screw size is best. That is what I did when the original screw on my repro Pietta Smith blew out a dozen years ago. For a replacement screw, I used a stainless steel screw to avoid the rust problem.

Michael Bodner
04-13-2011, 07:04 AM
Thanks for the help!

On my Smith, the portion where the threads are is SOOOOOOO thin, that even though I already retapped it, it doesn't even have 2 threads on it.

Or are you guys saying that you drilled that out completely and tapped the 'main portion' ??

-Mike

Eggman
04-13-2011, 11:12 AM
It sounds like the outside breach surface where the cleanout hole is is so thin you're into a major safety issue. Might not you need to thicken this surface up first before drilling?? I thnk you need to forget aesthetics for now and think engineering with your local arc welder.

Michael Bodner
04-13-2011, 12:43 PM
Don't over-guess it... The receiver is close to 1/4" thick in that area. Its just the threaded portion under the screw that keeps letting the screw get blown out.

The receiver isn't going to fail any time soon.

-Mike

Eggman
04-13-2011, 02:16 PM
Cool! I'd say fill the hole or install monster screw that occupies the whole hole and is anchored on the quarter inch stuff.

Michael Bodner
04-13-2011, 02:50 PM
I'm considering that. My concern would be tapping the hardened receiver. With my luck, I'd snap the tap in and never get it out !!! LOL

-Mike

Eggman
04-13-2011, 03:03 PM
If you drill out the hole you'll get a good idicator of hardness. Betting the hardness is not real deep. Did you get some idea when you drilled before?? If you break the tap off you'll leave a nice plug!!(??)) Good luck Bootsie!!!

Lou Lou Lou
04-13-2011, 04:10 PM
Spend a buck. Have someone who knows, do it. If it goes bad, you can torture them, forever

Michael Bodner
04-13-2011, 04:51 PM
Lou,

Got any suggestions??

-Mike

Eggman
04-13-2011, 06:30 PM
Should be a piece of cake for your local machine shop.

Joe Plakis, 9575V
04-13-2011, 09:57 PM
Bob Hoyt fixed the two repops that my father and I have. He drilled out the hole and basically put a piece of stainless all thread in from the bolster area into the breech itself. He had to re-drill the flash channel and add a small hole in the side to let the flash through to the nipple. I now have an 1/8 inch worth of threads that all make contact, and could probably put a little longer of a screw in.

My suggestion would be to have a professional fix it.

Lou Lou Lou
04-14-2011, 06:30 AM
Boots

I don't know who you have in your area. Any machinist should be able to do it. If you get one that is a "gun guy" you are ahead of the game. Good Luck.

Eggman
04-14-2011, 10:35 AM
Wondering -- if you redrill to the diameter of the larger recess hole, then thread from there just past the depth of the original screw, would you not have plenty of thread area for the new screw and still be short of the flash channel. A fine thread bolt about one-fourth inch plus long would seem to have plenty of grab area (yeah I know, the tap would have to go in a bit deeper) and still be short of the flash channel. Leave the head on the outside surface. Are you sick of these comments yet Bootsie??

Michael Bodner
04-14-2011, 10:46 AM
Heck No!! The more ideas the better (well, at least some of them...)

I did get a private email from a member that in going to send me some machining instructions on how to make the fix. May be similar to your idea.

If I go the route of drilling and tapping the entire hole, I would definately use an allen screw so I could keep it flush with the side of the reciever. Lock-tite it in - Still gives me a clean out if needed. My main concern is not breaking the tap in the hole (no more jokes about use the tap as the plug...)

Anyone have any suggestions on really good taps to use (that I could order 1 off the internet - Not a whole set...).

I don't mind buying a kick-butt drill and tap, but I don't want to spend more than the gun costs for full sets of drills/taps made from kryptonite!! What speeds to drill at?? Obviously, use tons of cutting fluid. Threads per inch on the plug (24,32, 48...) - Where is the point of diminising returns on TPI verses thread depth?

Any other methods folks have used (successfully) that they did themselves are welcome.

I could always zap it with the MIG welder, but it would end up looking like crud, so I want to be more elegant.

-Mike

Wayne Shaw, 1985V
04-14-2011, 11:06 AM
Mike Just a side note DON'T WELD . The N-SSA rules are clear on welding of barrels and bolster areas under 14.13
The drill. tap and larger screw is the way to fly. Tap safley Wayne Shaw 1985V

Michael Bodner
04-14-2011, 11:10 AM
Damn good point....

Eggman
04-14-2011, 12:06 PM
I think you have an excellent plan Boots. The folks who shoot to your right will all be interested in seeing the result.

Frog
04-15-2011, 07:40 AM
Lowes sells drill/tap combo's in a single package. You do not have to buy a whole set.
That way you get the proper size drill for the tap, hence less chance to break the tap off for that perfect permanant hole plug.
Frog

Eggman
04-15-2011, 11:43 AM
Yeah your drilling will give you a feel for the hardness - I think once you're past the surface you'll fine normal steel. Then to be safe you may want to do smaller tap turns than the one-fourth turn they recommend. If the tap breaks it might leave a shard you can grab with a pliars or you can drill the tap out with a hard enough bit. Have you found a srew recessed for an Allen wrenchof correct size?? Wondering if our metal experts have any more thoughts.

Greg Ogdan, 11444
04-15-2011, 01:39 PM
Let's see, it's a repro Smith, right? Why not just get a Shiloh Sharps and be done with it?!

Michael Bodner
04-15-2011, 02:10 PM
ZING !!!! Owwwwwwwwwwww.

Sharper than a serpents tooth is an ungrateful Skirmisher.......


You know where you can store that Sharps.....

-Mike

Eggman
04-15-2011, 03:55 PM
Yeah,sure, and then spend the rest of your life looking over your shoulder for the Bear Fat Police. Really the Smith is just a step below the Maynard (same company really) where the Sharps would have been much better off had it early on been converted to a humane mouse trap.

Gary Van Kauwenbergh, 101
04-18-2011, 06:49 AM
Well, I think this thread has pretty much touched half the membership, and now Shakespeare too. It has been a long winter...

Lou Lou Lou
04-22-2011, 06:40 PM
Well?
Is it fixed yet?

Charlie Hahn
04-23-2011, 01:49 AM
Just a note to this problem. This should be done by someone knows class fit of threads. When doing this modification the percentage of thread has to be above seventyfive percent or you will have a secondary projectile in time. Welding and brassing are not good ideas for a lot of reasons.

The stainless screw is okay as long as you use compatable never sieze and clean often to mitagate leaching from diss-symilar metals.

I do these type of repairs, or can consult with you with correct drill and tap options for a local repair.

Charlie Hahn

pastore
04-23-2011, 09:46 AM
Heck No!! The more ideas the better (well, at least some of them...)

If I go the route of drilling and tapping the entire hole, I would definately use an allen screw -Mike

I don't think your gun would pass inspection with an allen screw installed as a clean out screw.

Lou Lou Lou
04-23-2011, 12:38 PM
Bootsie
This has gone on long enough. As a former region mate I will take the dangerous thing off your hands for a Hazmat fee of $20 yankee money. OK, I will waive the fee, just have it ready for Nationals and I will pick it up.
Your Pal

Eggman
04-23-2011, 05:55 PM
Which raises the question, you have a defective or worn out part on your N-SSA approved firearm, like a too short clean out screw on a Smith. You need to drill out and thread for a larger, safer screw. So you do this and now have a safe and reliable gun. Oh by the way, the replacement screw was an Allen. The Allen screw is not authentic. Any replacement screw is not authentic. The original (metric) screw was not authentic. What to do??? And by the by, where does a field repair fit in the scheme of things??

Eggman
04-26-2011, 06:29 PM
Come on guys, I'm really curious about this. Does the N-SSA have its own (screw) thread counters?? Is a gun not to be repaired unless it has an "authentic" fix?

Joe Plakis, 9575V
04-26-2011, 07:46 PM
The intent of replacing the screw would be to have it look as much like an original as possible. Allen Screws or Phillips would not be appropriate in attempting to make it "look" original.

I have had two Smiths corrected of this problem, it involved drilling out the bolster and screw, inserting a piece of stainless all thread and drilling and tapping a new screw. I have alot of meat for the screw to bite into now.

As for the pitch and thread count it would not matter, although I would suggest using a fine screw thread vs a coarse thread. The finer thread count gives you a little more strength and holding power.

Eggman
04-26-2011, 07:57 PM
Thanks Joe. Seems Boots should think slot head.

Michael Bodner
04-27-2011, 07:10 AM
All fixed!!

Based on advise from a very knowledgeable member, I made the repair by means of an insert inside the bolster. I drilled and tapped for the clean out screw (a regular slotted screw) and drilled a new flash channel in the insert.

A little loc-tite and its as good as new!

Thanks to everyone for their advise and contributions!

See y'all on the firing line

-Mike

Southron Sr.
04-28-2011, 01:13 AM
LITTLE KNOWN SCIENTIFIC FACT:

90% of the holding power of any screw is held by the FIRST THREAD. The test of the threads are "taking it easy."

At least that is what my Machine Shop Teacher told me in class decades ago.

Michael Bodner
05-02-2011, 12:23 PM
Well, I whacked 9 out of 12 on the pigeon board at Statesville this weekend. I think its fixed...

-Mike

Eggman
05-08-2011, 10:05 PM
Well Boots that's some shooting. However if things proceeded in such a way that you did NOT blast a clean out screw into your neighbor's left ear, THEN your gun is fixed.