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Southron Sr.
04-03-2011, 11:41 PM
As we (my son and I) were heading to the Skirmish at Statesville, N.C. this past Friday we stopped by our local Shooting Emporium to pick up some musket caps, because our cap supply was beginning to run low.

They sold us some of those new CCI's "Re-Enactment" Musket Caps [Sure enough it even says "Re-
Enactment Caps" on the label!]

I actually tried some of those muskets caps and here is my "user report:"

1. They are almost as strong as those roll caps I used to shoot in my Roy Rogers six-shooter, cap gun, when I was in the 1st Grade.
2. The Re-Enactors will probably be disappointed in them because they will produce a lot of miss-fires because they are so weak.
3.I made the mistake of trying them on my Pedersoli Sharps-OOPS! It took busting 5 caps before I got the carbine to discharge one time.

Does anyone else have any experience with those "Re-Enactor Caps?" Please let us know what you think of them.

THANKS IN ADVANCE

Eggman
04-04-2011, 10:36 AM
Isn't that the normal number of caps to get a Sharps to go off????

Mike w/ 34th
04-04-2011, 02:45 PM
The old CCI caps were so hot they'd blow shrapnel off the cap when struck (I've drawn blood from a teammate when shooting my Gallager). Sounds like they went completely the other way. Maybe they're confusing "reenactors" with "theatrical production"?

Can you even get the old CCI caps now? I used to get mine at WalMart, and they haven't carried them for two or three years.

-Michael

Southron Sr.
04-04-2011, 03:33 PM
Here are the TWO RULES OF LIFE REGARDING MUSKET CAPS:

1. ALWAYS SEAT CAP FULLY DOWN ON THE NIPPLE.

2. WHEN YOUR MUSKET CAPS START TO "FRAG," IT IS TIME TO REPLACE THAT NIPPLE BECAUSE IT IS WORN OUT. (I inspect and always replace my worn nipples BEFORE my caps start to "frag.")

Following those two rules I have never had a CCI Musket Cap "frag" on me over the many, many years I have been shooting their "Hot" Musket Caps.

Having been a Re-Enactor in years past, my theory is that the "Hot" CCI musket caps were banned from re-enactments because some re-enactors neglected to change out their nipples when they wore out. These worn nipples caused muskets to "frag."

Also, some Re-enactors do not use hearing protection and the claim that the "Hot" CCI musket caps were too "loud" was another complaint from some in the Re-enactment community.

I have heard the rumor that CCI has discontinued their "Hot" six wing Musket Caps, CAN ANYONE CONFIRM THAT RUMOR?

THANKS!

I guess that CCI listened to their product liability lawyers and then came out with their "weak as water" caps.

Michael T.
04-04-2011, 10:22 PM
I recently contacted CCI and they sighted a safety concern... Re-enactors do not wear safety glasses and apparently they buy more caps than Skirmishers do, so they are catering to them. I expressed a need for Skirmishers and they told me they had received little negative feed-back. I will repost the email address Mike

Eggman
04-05-2011, 10:35 AM
How about this. Last fall I had a talk with Heidi Forgett's daughter (I thought it was Heidi -- my how time flies) at the Navy Arms booth. I suggested they put their musket caps back into production - noted how we used to buy them by the case. She seemed receptive. How about the N-SSA board or somebody buy a million and get this source up and running again. We do it with target material right?

R. McAuley 3014V
04-05-2011, 10:35 AM
Here may be the "clarification" you wanted: the new CCI 0301 musket caps are "just for the reenactors" and are not intended for skirmishers. The response noted below is from a product review on the Cabelas' website as well as a similar one posted at Dixie Gun Works. I suspect the CCI/Speer Sr. Technical Coordinator doesn't know the difference between a CCI 0300 4-wing musket cap and a CCI 300 Large Pistol primer, hence their rather confusing advice "to change nipples and go to a #11 Mag cap." Go figure? Not sure of their logic concerning how "the priming mix has been reduced so as to not have the cap fail when the nipple becomes plugged" works? I wonder where CCI is hiring their rocket scientists these days?


RESPONSE: the old cap (#300) had a dual purpose, large quantity of powder ignition and reenactors using them in mock skirmishes. The new 301's are just for the reenactors as the priming mix has been reduced so as to not have the cap fail when the nipple becomes plugged. You're probably going to have to change nipples and go to a # 11 Mag cap. Shoot Straight!
CCI/Speer Sr. Technical Coordinator

http://www.cabelas.com/powder-caps-wing ... erralID=NA (http://www.cabelas.com/powder-caps-wing-musket-caps.shtml?type=product&WT.tsrc=CSE&WT.mc_id=GoogleBaseUSA&WT.z_mc_id1=1172305&rid=40&mr:trackingCode=B1E80C2C-383A-E011-B97A-001B21631C34&mr:referralID=NA)

http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_re ... 0d8aa027ef (http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_reviews_info.php?products_id=3635&reviews_id=2761&osCsid=2d3c380d1a885a04060bb90d8aa027ef)

http://www.cci-ammunition.com/products/ ... aspx?id=28 (http://www.cci-ammunition.com/products/primers/primers.aspx?id=28)

Lou Lou Lou
04-05-2011, 02:16 PM
He sent me the same reply. He did not agree with my assessment of the potential cap market. That raises a question.
How many caps a year do you use? I estimate 2,000 for skirmishes and another 2,000 for practicing all year.
With 3,000 memebrs that could equate to 12 million caps. Not a big enough market

Southron Sr.
04-05-2011, 03:13 PM
I also sent them an e-mail. IN my estimation, when hunting season rolls around there are going to be a lot of unhappy hunters that lost a deer because their rifle misfired using those "Re-enactment Caps."

Then the next group to cry and moan will be the Re-enactors. I have a feeling that their muskets misfires are going to skyrocket!

YA! Frum Now Oon, Ve only vuy the Jerman Moosket capzs!!!

Blair
04-05-2011, 05:49 PM
A sizeable number of reenacters advocate drilling out the nipple touch hole to help reduce miss fires in the M-1855, Richmond and M-1861 type bolsters. They even suggest enlarging the vent hole into the chamber.
Where as a good cleaning, something other than the period arms Manuals method for "field" cleaning their firearms would help. Especially when that is the only method some of them have ever used to clean their firearms.
Kind of scary ain't it?
Blair

R. McAuley 3014V
04-05-2011, 09:10 PM
He sent me the same reply. He did not agree with my assessment of the potential cap market. That raises a question.
How many caps a year do you use? I estimate 2,000 for skirmishes and another 2,000 for practicing all year.
With 3,000 memebrs that could equate to 12 million caps. Not a big enough market

What question Lou, the choice is as easy as three characters "RWS". I've been using the German caps for years, and the only better caps I've ever used were the Alcan caps back when you could get them for $2 a tin of 100 caps. Still have a few left over, along with few thousand of the RWS (enough caps to last me about 40 years)!

Southron Sr.
04-05-2011, 10:00 PM
Market for Musket Caps??? Back in the 1970's I was talking with one of the reps for an European musket cap manufacturer. I made a remark to the effect that I assumed that the majority of their production went to the United States because of Skirmishing and Re-enactors.

He looked at me like I was "daft." He told me that only a small percentage of their market was in the United States. The vast majority of their musket cap production went to: (1) Africa (2) South and Central America and (3) India. Apparently many countries in those areas have gun laws that allow their citizens to only own muzzle loaders-at least it was that way back in the 1970's.

Lou Lou Lou
04-06-2011, 06:28 AM
Richard

I have used RWS exclusively for the last 30 years. Not looking to change. Simply tryingto aid the community.

Rebel Dave
04-06-2011, 08:30 AM
After re-entering Skirmishing last year, I started using my RWS caps again, and will probably stick with them. I have 8 or 9 tubes left from the early 90s. At my age that means I'll be set for a while. They were the premier cap in that time. Never any miss fires. Good caps.

Rebel Dave aka Dave C.

John Holland
04-06-2011, 11:07 AM
I don't know about Africa, South and Central America, and India having muzzle loaders in the 1970's, but from what I see on the news services today I think they've all transitioned to full auto AK's! :lol:

John

Jim_Burgess_2078V
04-06-2011, 12:33 PM
I used to use RWS caps in both my musket and Shiloh Sharps. About the time they switched from metal to plastic containers I started getting misfires in my Sharps. I then switched to the hot CCI 6-wing caps for the Sharps (continuing to use RWS caps in the musket) and never had any more misfire problems. Now that the hot CCI caps are discontinued, I'm faced with the prospect of going back to using RWS caps in the Sharps. I'm hoping my previous experience with misfires might be attributed to just one bad lot of caps. Has anyone had recent problems with RWS caps in their Sharps?
Jim Burgess, 15th Conn. Vol. Inf.

Greg Ogdan, 11444
04-06-2011, 12:53 PM
Jim.

I started using the RWS wingless caps about 3 years ago in the Sharp's and have "occasional" issues. Now I just use a pencil and poke a hole in the rear of the cartridge. Problem solved. I really like the wingless in the Sharps. They split well and just fall of the cone.

Mike McDaniel
04-06-2011, 01:21 PM
Deutsche Caps sind sehr gut!

Phil Spaugy, 3475V
04-06-2011, 05:52 PM
Not to mention the Toyota mounted anti tank/anti aircraft guns !!!

le piaf
04-08-2011, 10:42 AM
Just my 2 cents , in Europe and especially in France we are always at less of sixty miles of a cap's dealer , the more easy to found are the RWS and after the CCI ,more exotic we have also Sellier et Bellot caps (Polish?)......and we have not the second amendment to protect us from eurofreaks politicians. :(

incredible isn't it ?

DAVE FRANCE
04-08-2011, 11:56 AM
Monsieur,

We have some states that are much like Europe, and they try to make the rest of the country like them. When one moves from one state to another, he sometimes feels he has moved to another country. I used to work with Europeans including with Frenchmen from Renault. Some commented that one of our large political parties would be called the Socialist party it it were in Europe.

Au Revoir!

David

DAVE FRANCE
04-08-2011, 12:02 PM
John Holland,

In the fifties there were small adds for muskets in magazines. I think they were made for people in South America. They were sold for a few dollars and one of friends bought one. I don't remember where I heard this, but my understanding was that black powder muskets were being made for use in hunting in South America and Africa.

Southron Sr.
04-09-2011, 07:15 AM
Dear Dave:

This reminds me of the "Great Pygmie Elephant Hunters" story that I heard in the 1970's when I was visiting an Atlanta Gun Show.

There was one dealer that had a very interesting, Belgian made, percussion, 2 BORE, muzzleloader on display at his table. What made this muzzleloader so unique (besides its short barrel and HUGE caliber) was that the stock was very short and stout with a wide, flat buttlpate.

According to this dealer, guns like this were still in common use in Central Africa and used by Pygmie Elephant Hunters. Here is the story:

First and foremost, only the bravest and stealthiest hunters in the tribe became Elephant Hunters. The Pygmies also hunted elephants like no other tribe or white professional hunters.

The Pygmie hunter would load his Pygmie Elephant Buster muzzleloader with a heavy charge of black powder and a round lead ball. Each hunter was allowed only ONE SHOT per hunt.

The pygmie hunter would then make a slow but careful and stealthy stalk to an elephant herd. This was usually in Mid-day when elephants tend to walk up under the shade of a tree and doze standing up. Then the hunter would pick out a dozing elephant and then slowly and carefully make his way until he was UNDER THE CHEST of the dozing elephant.

As Pygmies are so small, they can easily walk under a standing elephant and still have plenty of "headroom."

Then the hunter would carefully and quietly cock their elephant rifle and placing the butt on the ground with the muzzle being pointing streight up at the elephants heart.

"KER-BOOM!!!!!"

The massive 2 Bore ball would fly directly into the elephant's heart, mortally wounding the massive beast.

This was when it was most dangerous for the Pygmie hunter. Some elephants would simply jump straight up when shot and then come down dead, landing on the hunter and killing him.

If that didn't happen, then the Pygmie hunter had to guess before he shot which way the elephant would fall and run out from it heading in the OPPOSITE direction.

Needless to say, many Paymie hunters were killed by guessing wrong which way the elephant would fall! That being said, it is a Brave and Manly way to hunt elephants! I have only admiration for these brave hunters!

ON a historical note, the reason Colt Special Model 1861 Rifle Muskets are so rare today considering how many were manufactured during the Civil War is because after the war, many thousands were sent to Belgium, they were converted to smoothbores and sold to Pygmie elephant hunters

Unfortunately, the .62 caliber Colt's just didn't have the power to put down an elephant, so that is why the 2 Bore Elephant Guns were developed.

UPDATE..........

Sound made by Pygmie hunter, STANDING UNDERNEATH A DOZING ELEPHANT using the new CCI "Re-enactor Musket Caps" on his 2 Bore:

"Snap....Snap....Snap....Snap...#@$%$#!!!!...Snap.. .."Squish"... (Sound of elephant foot flattening Pygmie.)

DAVE FRANCE
04-09-2011, 05:44 PM
Dear Southren,

I heard something like that when I was a kid but it did not contain a firearm . I think I read somewhere that pygmies would hunt elephants and get underneath them and stab them with a spear or something. Musket or spear the results were probably the same. Pygmy Pancakes.

You can still read a lot of things that aren't true, or see it on television. Did you know that extraterrestrials came to earth and built the pyramids and all the other ancient ruins you have ever heard of? You can see that regularly on the History Channel; they should change the name to the UFO and Ghost Story Channel.

David

Southron Sr.
04-09-2011, 09:51 PM
Dear David:

As we both know, EVERY STORY told by a gun dealer at a gun show is ALWAYS 100% TRUE!

At one gun show, a dealer told me that before he got into politics, "Honest Abe" Lincoln was a gun dealer and set up at gun shows all around Illinois and Kentucky.

Your Friend,
Southron