PDA

View Full Version : Lubing base



falcon
03-29-2011, 05:25 PM
When lubing the base of the minie ball do you fill the base or just make sure it is coated? Is the T.C. lube ok for this? I know there may be something better but right now I am trying to get my Zouave Fired a couple of rounds to get the feel for it. I am going to fire 575 to start with.
Glade to get any help

Jim_Burgess_2078V
03-30-2011, 12:47 PM
I dip lube the outside of my Rapine Minies with beeswax/Crisco (proportions will vary with the season) and use pure Crisco in the base. When assembling my rounds I melt the Crisco and use an eyedropper to put about 5 drops in each base cavity. This does not completely fill the base. The more lube on the bullet, the better you can keep the fouling soft. I don't need to clean my musket between relays and waste a lot of caps to clear the vent again.

Jim Burgess, 15th Conn. Vol. Inf.

Greg Ogdan, 11444
03-30-2011, 01:09 PM
Well, I shoot FFg so I leave more fouling. I fill the caviey with melted Crisco. I use a restaurant style plastic bottle to hold the melted Crisco and just squeeze in 'til the cavity is full. I dip my minnies in MCM lube.

Dominic Infante, 8359V
03-30-2011, 05:48 PM
About 20 years ago one of the best team shooters I have ever observed (was with the 110th OVI) told me that he had six cookoffs until he started putting a pea sized portion of white lithium grease in the base of his minnies and has not had a cookoff since. Well, I began that procedure based on his advice and after 20 years and surely 20,000+ musket rounds I have not yet had a cookoff (I am knocking on wood with one hand while typing this). I have no idea why, but white lithium grease seems to work. The closest I have been to a cookoff is standing next to shooters who have had one, and that is as close as I ever want to get!

falcon
03-30-2011, 06:43 PM
Ok I am just getting into this, Can you tell me what a cookoff is? Hope this is not to dumb a question.

DAVE FRANCE
03-30-2011, 06:59 PM
A cookoff is the powder burning after being poured into the barrel just from something in the barrel. It sends hot, hot, hot black granules out the barrel that will enter the skin of your hand or face if they are over the barrel.

I use white lithium grease in the base of the Minie. But, I have used just lithium grease - the color doesn't matter. Since I started using it, I have never had a cookoff.

I had one cookoff in 37 years. I had a Bill Large barrel with a small cup shaped cavity under the tapped hole for the nipple. After the cookoff I found some buildup accumulated in the hole. After the cookoff, I made sure to clean out that cavity, and I never had another cookoff. I think if there is something in the barrel that reaches the ignition temperature of black powder, it will cookoff. And that something that is hot can be carbon/ash/sulpur or whatever from the powder burning.

I suggest cleaning out the barrel well, and use lithium grease in the base of the bullet. If you don't clean the bottom of the barrel well, the barrel will start to pit. I know soldiers in the Civil War could not do that, but they didn't pay for their barrels. it is a good idea to use gloves without fingers. If you are burned, the palm of the hand will be okay.

If you shoot on a hot day, the lithium grease will not melt like Crisco does.

David

DAVE FRANCE
03-30-2011, 07:02 PM
Dominic,

Maybe the litium grease cools off any hot spots better than Crisco. Could be!

David

falcon
03-30-2011, 09:06 PM
Does anyone use T.C. maxi-lube to lube the sides of the minie ball? Oh I am going to buy some lithium grease Tomorrow. Do you have this problem using Hodgdon's powder?

Greg Ogdan, 11444
03-31-2011, 08:58 AM
For what it's worth, when I tried white lithium grease as a base lube, my groups opened up some so I went back to Crisco. And yes, I have had 1 cook off in the 8 years I have been Skirmishing. It was on a bright, humid morning, in practice with the Union Guards, and it was rather surprising, but not injurious.

Jim_Burgess_2078V
03-31-2011, 12:58 PM
I've only had one cookoff in my nearly 40 years of skirmishing and that was not long after I started in the early 1970s. I attribute my cook-off to the use of military patches that tend to fray easily and leave residue behind in the bore that acts as a slow match. I don't think I was using Crisco in the base back then because I was cleaning my Zouave between relays and I don't have to do that now using the Crisco.

The flash point or ignition temperature of black powder is somewhere around 500 degrees F. if I recall correctly and it is next to impossible to get our barrels that hot. Something has to be smoldering in the barrel for a cook-off to occur. It would have to be caked fouling or some other combustible material. I seriously doubt Crisco has anything to do with it despite the anecdotal experiences of some skirmishers.

Let me add that as a regular backstop lead picker, I often find fired minies with a white, gooey substance in the base which I suspect might be lithium grease. Whatever it is, since it is still largely intact, it probably does not contribute much to keeping the fouling soft in the bore.

Jim Burgess, 15th CVI

Ken Hansgen, 11094
03-31-2011, 02:43 PM
Never had a cookoff (knock on wood) so can't speak to that. When I first started shooting BP on the Left Coast with CWSA (about 20-21 years ago), I was taught to lube my minies in the base ONLY with Crisco. Thus I was lubing the bore for the next shot. This worked even in hot weather (and it does get VERY hot in Calif.) when I kept the lubed loads in my ice chest until shooting time. I brought this method to N-SSA, but was soon told for best accuracy I should not lube the base cavity at all, so now I lube the grooves at the same time I size with a Lyman Lubrisizer. (I use a lube I bought from Tri-L, but also sometimes have cheated and lubed the base in addition with some Crisco.) I do wonder about the Crisco melting in a hot barrel and wonder what effect that has on the BP. Never had a misfire using that method, tho'.

Dominic Infante, 8359V
04-01-2011, 12:51 PM
The problem with using Crisco in the base of musket rounds on a hot day and with a hot barrel is that it will foul some of the powder and that could lead to igniting less powder than intended, thus the shot will go lower than desired.

I would add to what was explained above about a "cookoff" by emphasizing that while you can get a serious burn if the powder immediately goes off when poured down the barrel, by far the most serious event is the powder igniting while you are using the ram rod. That is why we practice loading so that our finger tips are exposed to the muzzle end of the musket for as little time as is humanly possible. Even though I am right handed, I load with my left hand in order to be able to point the barrel as far away from my body as possible. Right handed shooters, loading with their right hand always have more of their body closer to and exposed to the barrel's end. Although it is easy to get used to loading with your less dominant hand I have only observed one or two other shooters loading that way.

DAVE FRANCE
04-01-2011, 02:02 PM
Dominic,

Very good! You deserve some praise for being so saftery conscious.

I try to remember to point the barrel away from my face but I have not used my off hand to pour the powder. I don't worry too much about my hand because I always wear gloves without fingers. The burns I have seen and the one time I had one were not bad, but of course it is best to avoid it. I think it is a good idea to wear gloves anyway. I get little cuts on my fingers from pieces of caps or something. Cut on the palms are worse.

I doubt using Crisco or lithium grease makes a difference, but cleaning out any deposits in the barrel probably makes a difference. I think a bit of residuce in the barrel does not cool as fast as the barrel itself and barels in out sport don't get anywhere near 400 degrees. I use lithium grease in the base of Minies because it doesn't melt like Crisco, and the NRA CAST BULLETS publication said it is an excellent lubricant for cast bullets. I put the Minies in the tubes with the base up, and the lithium grease doesn't melt of come out.

David

Dominic Infante, 8359V
04-02-2011, 05:09 PM
David,

The cookoffs I observed produced pretty serious burns in that grains of powder were embedded in the shooter's hand, and as I recall months later you could still see specks of black under their skin. One of the reasons I load with my non-dominant left hand is that it allows me to wear a very heavy leather glove on my left hand (no bear fingers showing). So, if the worst happens and the powder ignites just as the ramrod is at the bottom of the barrel and two of my finger tips are slightly over the muzzel end, I will have some protection from what flies out of the barrel. I do not know if the leather covering my fingers would do much good in such an eventuallity, however, I would rather face such an event covered than not. (It's somewhat humbling to realize that in trying to persuade teammates and others to load as I do, over my 20 of so years in our sport , to the best of my knowledge, I have yet to produce a convert. I think we would be a little safer if we refined our loading procedures. In serving as a Safety Officer many times I have been a little concerned with the amount of skin shooters expose to the muzzel end and I have tried to offer some advice without coming on too strong since what they are doing is not that much different from the loading procedures of nearly everyone else.)

DAVE FRANCE
04-02-2011, 06:40 PM
Dominic,

I did not get burned when I had a cookoff. there was a delay after I put in the powder before it went off and my had was not over the barrel. My left hand was burned one time when I used it to help position a revolver in my right hand. I accidentally pulled the trigger and my hand was burned but not to bad. I did see a skirmisher after his musket cooked off while his face was near the muzzle. That looked pretty bad.

I worry about people who put their face over the muzzle.

I went to an NCOW shoot last weekend and one shooter was shooting a Walker Dragoon with 60 grains of powder. He used his left hand to steady the revolver and I told him to be careful, etc.

One more thing. The balls from his pistol put dents in the metal targets and I think they asked him to do something to prevent it.

Keep up the good work!

David

jbarber
04-03-2011, 01:19 PM
While most of the cook-offs I have observed seemed pretty much instantaneous, I remember a time when the late Stan Tweed had placed the ball in the muzzle and was reaching for his ramrod when the piece flashed. We stood staring at each other - I was beside him on his right - and before I could ask if he was OK the bullet thudded to the ground between my feet. This event certainly woke me up to the possibility of a cook-off while actually in the act of ramming, so Dominic's precautions seem well-taken. Since that time I pour the powder with both arms fully extended, the butt between my feet, and the muzzle inclined downrange. I also grasp the tube at the base. The one cook-off I've had resulted in no burn, but sure reinforced my loading technique.
In a related note, a shooter at the old Kirtland range badly burned his right thumb and forefinger after a flash. Nothing like red-hot powder granules embedded in your skin to make you cuss! A doctor in the crowd got his kit and poured a coke cup half full of hydrogen peroxide. He had the shooter immerse his fingers for several minutes, after which the powder particles had magically disappeared and his fingers were white as snow. He then smeared on a salve called silvadine, I think,and wrapped the digits in a couple layers of thin gauze. At the next shoot I asked the victim how he was doing after his experience and he said that within three days there was no pain or burn sensation at all. Since that time I always keep a bottle of hydrogen peroxide in my car while attending a shoot. Jon Barber 1483V 110th OVI