1863 sharps carbine approval

[herb kirks]

I am considering rejoining the NSSA and have aquired a Shiloh Sharps '63 carbine. It has a patch box and no saddle ring. Is it approved to be used?

[John Holland]

Mr. Kirks -

With the differences being so insignificant between the 1859 & 1863 models of Sharps Carbines, here is what I can do for you.

As long as your Shiloh Sharps Carbine has the Sharps Patch Box, and no Saddle Bar & Ring, I will disregard the barrel markings designating it as a New Model 1863 and consider it to be a Sharps 1859 Navy Model. It is known that the USN did infact order Sharps Model 1859 Carbines WITH the Patch Box, and NO Saddle Bar.

If you decide to rejoin the N-SSA (and I hope you do!) you will be required to have your Sharps Carbine inspected by the Small Arms Committee and in return you will receive an Individual SAC Approval card for it. This will permit you to use it in any of the N-SSA's Class 1 Carbine matches.

Thank you for asking.

Sincerely,
John Holland
Chairman, Small Arms Committee

[herb kirks]

Mr. Holland,

Thanks! This makes me feel much better!

Herb

[Dave Fox]

In the Learn Something Every Day department, I don't know about the lack of a sling bar nor Navy purchase of Sharps carbines. Did understand early production M1863 Sharps carbines boasted patchboxes. Couldn't this piece be equipped w/ an after-market sling bar and ring and avoid the ignominy of association with those Navy fellows?

[John Holland]

Dave -

Yes, a Saddle Bar could be added to make the arm in question a Cavalry model.

I am going to address this to a less than pleasant problem some of our members have run into in dealing with Shiloh Sharps. Shiloh Sharps arms have a "Lifetime Warranty"....as long as any modifications to the arms are done by them. For them to retrofit a Saddle Bar, or Patch Box, will cost the customer somewhere in the vicinity of $600. If the work is done by anyone else the "Lifetime Warranty" is null & void forever. The Shiloh Sharps company of today is much different from the Shiloh Sharps company founded by Wolfgang Droege. When Wolf Droege owned and operated Shiloh Sharps in Farmingdale, NY, he delivered exact replicas of Sharps Rifles & Carbines complete with Saddle Bars and Patch Boxes where required. These are the arms that were approved for use in the N-SSA. He sold the company and name many years ago. All N-SSA Production Approvals went with the name in good faith. Somewhere in the late 1990's the current company changed their policy so that the Civil War models were now stripped down, incomplete arms. Those arms are not approved for use in the N-SSA, only the complete versions.

Because of that policy change, the Shiloh Sharps company of today considers Patch Boxes and Saddle Bars to be extra cost optional add-ons to the base product. Their inclusion in the base product to make it a complete replica of a Civil War Sharps Rifle, or Carbine, raises the price accordingly. Unfortunately some of our members have fallen into that trap by either not ordering the complete arm to save costs, or not understanding what they were going to receive, or worse yet not being an educated consumer by knowing what is required for a Sharps Rifle or Carbine to be a Civil War version.

The topic of current Shiloh Sharps products was the subject of an earlier discussion in late April, 2010 on this BB. At that time the discussion was limited to the New Model 1863 series of Rifles & Carbines. The discussion of a Shiloh Sharps Carbine with a Patch Box and no Saddle Bar is new.

John Holland
Chairman, Small Arms Committee

[Richard Hill]

What about the little sliding doohickey on the trigger plate that locks the guard/operating lever closed? I had to send mine back to be added. I don't think these things are even an "optional extra" anymore.

[John Holland]

Richard -

Thank you for bringing to light yet another deviation from the "N-SSA Production Approval" as given to the original Farmingdale Shiloh Sharps products.

JDH

[John Gross]

I understand rules and regulations can not always be perfect, but I have often found things a little "odd" with the NSSA. Minor things like a saddle ring or lever latch can disqualify a gun, yet re-barreling, re-boring, filing/drilling sights, smoothing/tuning the trigger, using non-traditional bullets, etc. are perfectly acceptable.

I remember the poor guy from several months back (maybe even a year) who had the upper band on his musket crooked. Since the front sight was on the band this caused the sight to be off center. He wanted to reposition the band about 1/16" or, gasp...maybe even 1/8", but "No, No, No" was the answer.

I would guess the purpose of the rules is to make sure the guns are as much "as issued" as possible, but then modifications are allowed which leaves many of these guns far from being "as issued."

Isn't this odd?

P.S.: You may take this as a rhetorical question if you wish :lol:

John Gross