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John Holland
11-27-2008, 10:40 AM
Late last Saturday night, 11-22-08, there was a posting placed on this BB, requesting an answer from me. I didn’t read it until Monday evening. It was a legitimate question and deserved a well thought out reply. The answer was not as simplistic as it may have appeared.

I discussed an appropriate answer with some of the Small Arms Committee, and began to craft a reply. Imagine my shock and dismay Tuesday evening, 11-25-08, when I went to reply to the posting and low and behold…it had disappeared!

Why was the post removed?

Sincerely,
John Holland
Chairman, Small Arms Committee

John Holland
11-29-2008, 10:51 AM
To all,

First of all, I want to quell any thoughts of "Censorship" related to the missing post. After some investigation, it appears that Mr. Clark deleted his own post. No harm, no foul.

Now, for Mr. Clark's benefit, and those of you who may have been interested in the Small Arms Committee answer to his question, I will first restate the question. Very simply, Mr. Clark has a repro 1842 ArmiSport that has a poorly fitted front band that was"'rolled" to the left which causes the front sight to lean to the left. Mr. Clark wanted to know if he could move the front sight to center, leaving the band where it was. I contacted some of the SAC members for a discussion on a proper answer.

The answer: It is the consensus of the members polled that since the rules specifically state that there are to be no sight modifications from the original on any smoothbore, the front band should be relocated to the proper position, instead of moving the front sight.

My apologies for the time elapsed in this reply.

Sincerely,
John Holland
Chairman, Small Arms Committee

Wayne M Clark
11-29-2008, 12:38 PM
Mr Holland,
I indeed did remove the post which I posted on Saturday , Nov 22. Reason being on Sunday, Nov 23,1210PM you commented on an newer post above and adjacent to mine concerning a Potsdam carbine. I was cautious that I may have " opened a can of worms " that you really didn't wish to comment . So I removed the post .
My original question was could I rotate a front sight blade mounted on a barrel band 1/64"right to bring it to vertical. To relocate the band would require another hole to be drilled, which is a modification (2 holes). I was going to file off the front sight, which is cast as a part of the front band, and simply solder a brass blade , then file to the original height and dimensional contour. Were not the original blades of the 1842 brass, and soldered on the the barrel band?
Thank you for your imput.
W. Clark

John Holland
11-29-2008, 01:25 PM
Wayne,

Thank you for the response. I have reassured a number of people that there was no censorship involved. Thank you for confirming it.

Yes, the front blade on an original M-1842 is brass, and the reproduction is steel and integral to the front band. The SAC personnel involved did understand your request to move the front blade 1/16th of an inch. The preferred correction is to move the band, not the blade. The reason being the front band will then be in the intended position. If I were doing it, I'd weld the hole up and re-drill the new hole in the proper location.

If the SAC authorizes someone to move the front sight blade because the blade is out of position by 1/16", we will then have many people moving the blade to "fine tune" the point of aim. Each and every one of them will claim "The blade was off." So, you are correct, there is a "can of worms" involved.

Thank you for your understanding of the decision of the Small Arms Committee.

John

Edwin Flint, 8427
11-29-2008, 01:40 PM
Seems to me that the solution would be to fill the hole and then re-drill in the appropriate position. No sight modification needed, but you would accomplish the same thing.

Wayne M Clark
11-29-2008, 02:13 PM
Ed,
The diameter of the hole drilled by Armisport is .150 in diameter, the amount of correction is from 1/64-1/16 (.0156-.0625) which would put it within he existing hole. The result would be a figure 8. Either of the suggestions offered would a cosmetic mistake. My request is not to change the impact . Members heat and bend the barrels for that and I'm not sure how safe that is. All I wish to do is put the blade at center on top of the band. Why not let SAC inspect it after alignment. I've seen other Armisport 1842's properly orientated, so it is a manufacture error. A problem if you are buying sight unseen as from a vendor.
W. Clark

John Holland
11-29-2008, 05:27 PM
Wayne,

Elongate the hole with a Rat Tail Swiss file to where the blade is on center. Then remove the band; support the band internally on a rod clamped in a vise; peen the bottom of the hole closed, up to the bottom of the band spring locking pin. You can move a lot of metal with some patience and a small ball-peen. If you are worried about the cosmetics, then emery cloth the surface of the band where it was peened and polish it. Use oil with the emery cloth. Crocus cloth, wrapped around a flat file, with oil, will do just fine for a finish, or buff with polishing compound.

As to bending barrels, I know a lot of people who bend, and have bent barrels, in fact I built a barrel bending jig for myself, but I've never met anyone who used heat to do it.

John

Wayne M Clark
11-29-2008, 05:54 PM
John,
I do appreciate the thought you have given to this problem. However,
any rotating of the barrel band itself, will require additional movement of the band spring and it's associated slot as the upper band fits flush against the band spring.Thought about moving the entire band spring slot; can't as it is at the very edge of the ram rod channel. The only neat way is to move the blade only. I also believe I could do this without any visual recognition which would cause other problems, with SAC inspection and approval of course.
W. Clark

William H. Shuey
11-30-2008, 05:17 PM
maybe too simple. Why not look for a new front barrel band??

Bill Shuey

John Gross
11-30-2008, 05:28 PM
maybe too simple. Why not look for a new front barrel band??

Bill Shuey

I thought the same thing, but after rereading the posts the band does not appear to be defective, but is "poorly fitted". Therefore, a new band would also fit poorly.

I think. http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/fragend/confused-smiley-014.gif

John Gross

R. McAuley 3014V
11-30-2008, 11:28 PM
CENSORED

Wayne M Clark
12-01-2008, 09:38 AM
Mr. McAuley,
Obviously,you could use some help with your smoothbore technique. However, the problem arises in the liberal interpretation of N-SSA rule 14.9.1 paragraph L by a consenus of the SAC members. The rule as written and approved by the board has failed to include a provision for approved repair. The rule is intended to prevent modifications to be made to ORIGINAL AS-ISSUED DIMENSIONS,FORM, NATURE, OR LOCATION OF ANY SIGHTS AFFIXED TO A SMOOTHBORE MUSKET. In the phrase "original as issued" these are referring to and orginal 1842 Springfield dimensions, etc. At the Springfield Armory these muskets were carefully assembled and inspected using a set of templates, gauges, etc. particular to the dimension, form, nature, and location of the various parts needed to assemble a musket. My musket was assembled by Armisport with very poor quality control. I doubt an original musket would be passed by US inspectors with the front sight soldered to the left of center and leaning on the front band.

I asked for approved permission to merely center the front sight blade on the front band which was misaligned at the factory. I do not intend to alter the height , width, nor contour of the sight. As well, after the repair being made I would present it to the SAC for inspection so they could confirm only this repair being made.
W.Clark

Scott Kurki, 12475
12-01-2008, 11:54 PM
I don't know if this is a good idea or not but here goes. Would a new front band have the sight in the proper location? If so, maybe the manufacturer would consider this a manufacturing problem and correct it for you.

John Holland
12-02-2008, 01:07 PM
skurki,

Mr. Clark's front sight is in the correct location on the band. That is why the Small Arms Committee respectfully requests he relocate the band, and not the sight.

John Holland
Chairman, Small Arms Committee

R Filbert
12-24-2008, 02:39 PM
Heres what I did to remedy the same problem-figure were the musket is shooting -make a small mark on the barrel behind the site with a black marker twist the front band with youre hand where you want it then with an awl -mark the barrel note location before you shoot -give it a twist .Mine stays put long enough to finish an event and then some-Just a thouht as it works for mine.

Southron Sr.
01-13-2009, 02:02 PM
Having some familiarity with both original and repro M1842's, my suggestion would be to glass bed the loose and ill fitted front band in its proper position.

Regardless of wheather or not the band spring hole in the front band is moved , without glass bedding the band will remain "loose" and a detriment to whatever "accuracy" that smooth bore musket is capable of.