Buncha New Guy Questions - 1861 Springfield

[alienbogey]

I recently bought a barely used 1861 Springfield reproduction and have a bunch of question that I hope aren't too annoying.

1. The metal is such a smooth bright grey that it almost appears to be stainless, but I assume it's simply standard gun making steel left in the white. If I wanted to finish it, what do most folks use to make it look relatively original? Blue it? Brown it? I'm not necessarily looking to reproduce an antique finish like it was carried for 2 years and dropped at The Wilderness, but I would like it to look reasonably correct, should I decide to finish it. Or do folks just leave them in the white and let nature take it's course?

2. I can find no mark indicating which company made it. It says '1861' and 'U.S. SPRINGFIELD' with an eagle stamp on the right of the receiver, and 'Cal.58', 'FOR BLACKPOWDER ONLY', the serial number, and what appear to be proof marks on the left side of the barrel, some partially obscured by the stock. On the underside on the aft trigger tang is a very small 'MADE IN ITALY'. Would there be a company stamp under the stock somewhere? Does it matter?

3. The rammer is threaded on the other end from the cupped end - I assume that would be for some sort of cleaning attachment? I didn't receive one with the rifle - should there have been one?

4. I received a bayonet and scabbard with the rifle - it goes on, rotates into position, but is kind of loose and rattles unless an integrated screw clamp is tightened with a slotted screw. Out of curiosity, is that a correct reproduction?

5. To my surprise, 58 caliber balls or bullets have been rather hard to find - my local big box sporting goods store had nothing in 58, and the Cabela's Shooting catalog had only 58 caliber balls, no bullets. What is a good source for minié balls? Do most folks mold their own? Is there a consensus best mold for an Italian reproduction?

6. Genuine black powder can be hard to find around here - what substitute do most folks use?

Sorry for all the questions, but thanks in advance for answers.

[Lou Lou Lou]

I sent you a quick PM.
Best bet is to let us know where you are located and see who is nearby. Folks are always willing to help a Newbie get started on the right foot.

[Fauch125]

Fairly new myself, but I'll take a stab at this
1. Model 1861 originally almost totally in the white except the band springs and the rear sight, maybe the ramrod as well. Would have been kept bright by polishing and oiling.
2.If its a model 1861, probably an Armi Sport or Euroarms. Other italian makers include Pedersoli and Pietta (not sure they make model 1861)
3.The thread was originally used for cleaning attachments, worms, breech scrapers, and bullet pullers. Most today use a range rod for cleaning and cleaning implements, and use the ramrod for loading only.
4. sounds correct
5.Depends on how much you're going to shoot. Cast minies are expensive, available from various sources such as Dixie Gun Works. Very important for accuracy, minie size must match the muskets bore. Measured in thousands of inch, such as .575. In the long run (lots of shooting), better to cast your own.

I can't stress enough the benefit of finding a local N-SSA shooter and getting hands on info and setup help direct from them. Would have saved me alot of aggavation and some money. Interestingly, this is how I got started as well, buying a repop mdel 1861 and trying to get it to work. Got invited by an N-SSA member to a National, was overloaded with useful info you won't find anywhere else, and caught the bug. If you post your location, someone on the board might be willing to help.

[pastore]

I recently bought a barely used 1861 Springfield reproduction and have a bunch of question that I hope aren't too annoying.

1. The metal is such a smooth bright grey that it almost appears to be stainless, but I assume it's simply standard gun making steel left in the white. If I wanted to finish it, what do most folks use to make it look relatively original? Blue it? Brown it? I'm not necessarily looking to reproduce an antique finish like it was carried for 2 years and dropped at The Wilderness, but I would like it to look reasonably correct, should I decide to finish it. Or do folks just leave them in the white and let nature take it's course?

2. I can find no mark indicating which company made it. It says '1861' and 'U.S. SPRINGFIELD' with an eagle stamp on the right of the receiver, and 'Cal.58', 'FOR BLACKPOWDER ONLY', the serial number, and what appear to be proof marks on the left side of the barrel, some partially obscured by the stock. On the underside on the aft trigger tang is a very small 'MADE IN ITALY'. Would there be a company stamp under the stock somewhere? Does it matter?

3. The rammer is threaded on the other end from the cupped end - I assume that would be for some sort of cleaning attachment? I didn't receive one with the rifle - should there have been one?

4. I received a bayonet and scabbard with the rifle - it goes on, rotates into position, but is kind of loose and rattles unless an integrated screw clamp is tightened with a slotted screw. Out of curiosity, is that a correct reproduction?

5. To my surprise, 58 caliber balls or bullets have been rather hard to find - my local big box sporting goods store had nothing in 58, and the Cabela's Shooting catalog had only 58 caliber balls, no bullets. What is a good source for minié balls? Do most folks mold their own? Is there a consensus best mold for an Italian reproduction?

6. Genuine black powder can be hard to find around here - what substitute do most folks use?

Sorry for all the questions, but thanks in advance for answers.


1. The rifle should be in the white

2. manufacurers mark should be on the barrel.

3. You should have gotten a ramrod with the rifle

4. It sounds like the correct one.

5. You can get bullets from Dixie Gun Works. You need to know the bore diameter of the rifle before you can determine the correct bullet mold.

6. Try 777

[alienbogey]

Thanks for the replies.

I'm in Gig Harbor, Washington, and so far as I can tell there is no NSSA group within at least 1,500 miles. Not a lot of Civil War battles were fought out here.

To measure the bore do you measure from the tip of the rifling or down in the grooves or ______ ?

[Edwin Flint, 8427]

Most of your questions have been answered, I will try with a few others.

BP, Real black powder, can be bought mail order from several sources. Just have to pay the haz mat fees for shipping. Also, Bass Pro and a few other outdoor specialty big retailers carry Real BP. You just have to ask for it as it is kept in the back due to federal regs.

If you have to use a substitute, Triple Seven is likely the best. N-SSA does not allow subs for its events and I have yet to find any sub as good or better than the real thing.

There are some skirmishing groups in Northern California. I believe they call themselves the Blue Grey Skirmish Association. Might get some help there.


3. The rammer is threaded on the other end from the cupped end - I assume that would be for some sort of cleaning attachment? I didn't receive one with the rifle - should there have been one?

Usually the tools, jags, worms, scrapers, etc. are extra.


To measure the bore do you measure from the tip of the rifling or down in the grooves or ______ ?

Measure Lan to lan. You want the bullet to be .001-.002 under bore size. You want pure soft lead bullet that expand into the grooves when the charge goes off. Hard lead will ride the lans and not expand into the grooves to seal the barrel and you will get no accuracy at all.

Once you get the size bullet you need, you can either buy a mould and sizer to fit your gun or you can contact one of many custom bullet suppliers and get bullets sized for your gun. The last option is expensive but viable if you don't shoot much.

Another option is to find some .570 round balls and patches that fit with your bore. Not really what was intended but a very viable option for ranges out to 100 yards.

[mikea]

I will second all of the advice you have been given so far. Would add that you would do well to get a copy of the S&S Firearms catalog. They are located in Glendale, NY just outside of NYC, have all sorts of goodies - probably more than most other dealers you can mail order from - and are good to deal with. There is a link to their web site on this web site. Go to the home page and click on "Links of Interest". The current catalog can be downloaded from their website or you can call and have them mail you one. The Dixie Gun Works catalog is also useful.
The actual land to-land bore diameter is critical for shooting minie bullets and this can and does vary with the Italian repros. If you can find a gunsmith with an offset micrometer (needed for odd number of lands & grooves) you could have them slug the barrel and tell you what it is. You need to shoot minies from .001 to .003 less that the land-to-land diameter.
The bullets need to be lubed. There are all sorts of concoctions for this, but a 50-50 mixture of beeswax & bore butter will work. Melt over low heat & dip the lower half of the bullets in it.

[RaiderANV]

Alien,

While the N-SSA is not near you per say, there are two groups that modeled themselves after us out your way. Below are the groups and links to get ahold of them. There is still no doubt in my mind you'll find more helpful info on the N-SSA's site Green But at least you'll have someone to go throw lead with.


The Blue Gray's website is www.blue-gray.us (http://www.blue-gray.us)

Civil War Skirmish assoc. http://www.redbeardsranch.com/civil_war_skirmish.htm

There's also a group in ALASKA that tried to join the N-SSA. Several teams and growing.

[alienbogey]

Thanks for all the replies.

I think I'll do what I can to figure out the proper Minié bullets to order, shoot them up, and see how it goes.

The closest group I can find for an NSSA type of shoot is northern California - at least a 12 hour drive. :(

[R. McAuley 3014V]

Thanks for all the replies.

I think I'll do what I can to figure out the proper Minié bullets to order, shoot them up, and see how it goes.

The closest group I can find for an NSSA type of shoot is northern California - at least a 12 hour drive. :(
Some members of the N-SSA drive more than 12 hours to participate, and back when I belonged to the CWSA, we took teams from the Atlanta and north GA area to attend the CWSA Nationals held at West Bend, WI (1988) some 823 miles, and Bloomfield, IA (1993), some 770 miles. For me, Fort Shenandoah, VA is 625 miles (or right at 11 hours). For others, it's as much as 1,500 miles or more as some members live in Texas.