smoothbores

[kowdok]

Wife and I both are planning to get smoothbores for next season. Need all the expert advice out there as to advantages of all approved types, what molds are available, powder loads, lubes, etc., etc. Thanks in advance for any advice.
Jim and Marty

[Greg Ogdan, 11444]

Jim,
Regardless of what others may say, I like the Potsdam. They can probably be had cheaper and relined by hoyt to .69 so a .678 ball will work. Powder charge and lube are some of the mystries of smoothies. I wish I could give you a load. You will just have to experiment. For your wife, you may want to look into a '55 cadet. They are basically a 7/8 scale '55 musket and smooth in .58. Lighter and shorter in the back for a woman. Just my $.02, and you know what that's worth. If you want more, shoot me a PM.

[John Holland]

Jim -

Actually Greg meant to say a Model 1851 Cadet, which is a 7/8 scale version of a Model 1842 smoothbore.

JDH
SAC

[Eggman]

Jim: Say it ain't so!!!!! If you and Marty are looking for an easier way to miss I can show you how to do that with a rifled musket.

[R. McAuley 3014V]

If you're looking for a Potsdam, Joe Salter currently has one for sale

http://www.joesalter.com/detail.php?f_qryitem=12075

[Scott w/1st Fla]

I have a cut-down 42 that I have been thinking of getting rid of for a while now. The gun shoots great but it's the smallest smoothy you can legally shoot. I am over 6' and I just need a taller gun. Let me know if your interested and we can talk.

[kowdok]

Scott
I would certainly be interested in knowing the details of your smoothy, repro. or original, price, etc. You're welcome to answer me here or privately at jjjrogers@abts.net
thanks
Jim R

[Scott w/1st Fla]

Its a early James River cut-down. I think I've had it since 06 and I bought it used. The barrel is 24 inches and the total overall height of the gun is shorter than my Richmond carbine. She likes wheelweights roughed up a bit and 45 gr of 3f Swiss. I have never shot a clean match with it but had quite a few one miss skirmishes. I'll take 750 for her . I cant sell the mold but I will cast a bunch of balls for ya.

[Scott Kurki, 12475]

I am using a James River Armory 30" Macon Conversion smoothbore and I love it. It shoots point of aim with 42 grains and a thrice dipped .683 round ball. I use the ice cream cone method of lubing the ball. The mold was obtained from Jeff Tanner in England, http://www.jt-bullet-moulds.co.uk.

[surveyor47]

What bothers me about smoothbores is the frequency of cook offs. I have been present at 3 skirmishes where a cook off has occured, all with smooth bores. One man got powder shot into his finger tips twice. Another man had a full charge go off, breaking his finger tips. This is the reason I have thus far refused to have anything to do with a smootbore. I have been told that sooner or later I will have a cook off with a musket, but I have not witnessed one thusfar, so I think that they are far less frequent than smooth bore cook offs. Does anyone know why this occurs and how to avoid cook offs?

[Lou Lou Lou]

I went 25 years with out a cook off in my musket. Then had 2 in one day. Should have cleaned the gun.
I havent witnessed any cook offs with the Smoothbores yet in our region. Using proper loading technique is important to avoiding serious injury.

[John Holland]

In 50 years of shooting muzzle loading arms I have had 3 prematures with powder, "preemies", or "cook-offs" as you will. All with 3 band muskets. Two of them were in a Wm. Large barrel and one a Jencso-Hoyt. The first one (1968) got me between the thumb and forefinger in the web of my hand, the second one (1972) got the forefinger at the middle joint, and the last one (2009) never touched me. It looks like I finally learned!

I have been competing with smoothbores for 45 years and have never had a "preemie" with any of them.

JDH
44th NY

[Greg Ogdan, 11444]

Surveyor,
What you say is very interesting. I am not aware of any cook-offs of Smoothies in the Midwest Region.

[surveyor47]

One cookoff occured 2 years ago at Eva Tennessee.

Two cookoffs occured at Brierfield Alabama.
JC 4th LA

[Bill Tate]

I have been skirmishing for 23 years and never experienced a cook-off in a musket, musketoon, or smoothbore. As others have said maintaining your weapons properly helps to reduce the risk of a cook-off...and safe loading practices will go a long way to help reduce or eliminate injuries in the event that you do experience a cook-off.

Bill Tate
6955V

[Eggman]

So the question is: are the cartridge materials or loading procedures different for the smoothbore from other N-SSA arms? Obviously something is left behind to smolder. Any such must be prohibited by the rules.

[Lou Lou Lou]

Usually it is found to be carbon build up. Often a pitted breech plug facilitates the carbon. Polishing the breech plog usually resolve the issue. The fix lasts for years, normally

[Jim_Burgess_2078V]

There may be multiple causes for cook-offs. I attribute my only cook-off back in the early 1970s to the way in which I cleaned my musket between relays. Back then I was using military cleaning patches that tend to fray easily with the potential to leave fragments in the bore which can then become slow matches to ignite the next charge. I stopped using military patches and I started putting crisco in the base of my minies which eliminated the need to clean between relays. Haven't had a cook-off since. For smoothbore I use a .672 ball wrapped in aluminum foil. This fits loose enough that I can shoot an entire match without the need to brush or clean between relays. Accuracy is also reasonable. The smoothbore gods were kind to me at the last National and I won my first medal with my M1842 Armi-Sport.
Jim Burgess, 15th CVI

[Eggman]

And of course when we get home we all vigorously flush the breech out with hot water, right guys?? My thanks for some very interesting observations on this!!

[John Holland]

My muzzle loaders are cleaned by removing the barrel from the stock and flushing with boiling water using a 1# coffee can as a sump. Sometimes I use a liquid detergent with it, sometimes I don't. The boiling water causes the barrel to dry inside as fast as I can run dry patches through it. An oily patch for the last pass, wipe the outside with another oily patch, reassemble, and the barrel is done.

N.B. - The nipple is removed first, cleaned and set aside, then replaced using hi-temp grease on the threads when the barrel is finished.

The patent breech arms, like H&P's, Bill Large, etc. take a bit more effort to clean and dry the breech section.

JDH

[macvcallsign]

Have been Skirmishing since 1974 and have never had a "cook-off" in any gun, musket, carbine, smoothbore, etc. Have shot all types of barrels/breech designs as well. I wipe out the bore between relays with a couple of "spit patches" and I use a soft lube that keeps the powder residue from "caking". I do believe this is what has worked for me in eliminating cook offs. And of course I clean the bore well after the shoot. :!:

Dennis Schuler(Brad's Dad)
4th Kentucky Cavalry, CSA
1561V

[MR. GADGET]

Jim

I have three... 30" 36" and a 42" You are welcome to come play sometime and see what is to your liking.

I also want to spend some time with a 24" just to see the difference in the sights.
I have had better luck with the longer 36" and 42" barrels. Not much difference in the 36" barrel but have yet to play with that one also.

Let me know if you want to shoot..

[efritz]

Dear sirs,
I feel it's time to weigh in on this subject. Not that I have allot of light to shed on it but for what it's worth, here goes.

Been shooting for over 40 years in the NSSA. In all that time I've had no more than 5 cook offs and two of my first ones happened on the same day. I've been fortunate enough that only one got me pretty good, but I healed. The one that really scared me was one that went off while I went to retrieve the bullet from my mouth. That delay was eye popping. A nanosecond later and I could have been loading the bullet on top. I shoot everything and allot. In my younger days I was fast too. When everything was going right and no fumbling, I could do 9 aimed shots in 2 minutes and hit. I've slowed a bit now as the peepers have prevented the snap shooting which is an intergral part of shooting fast.

During these years not much has changed except for changing guns from time to time. For the longest time I used a musketoon for carbine. I have since moved on to a breech loader. I clean all my guns at home. Strip them completely, pulling breech plugs and nipples and washing in hot soapy water, drying, bronze brush with Hoppes, Hoppes patches, and then Rig grease with a concoction called MIkes Red, (look it up on the internet) on a patch. I don't clean guns on the line except for the smoothbore. On it I use simple green on a patch and dry. Patches are bought from sutlers. No military patches.

For those who have never had a cook off and have been shooting for many years, congradulations. You're either lucky or very slow. I applaud you for whatever you are doing because it works for you. Perhaps you could log on and let the rest of us know all the paticulars of your success.

My lube is something I make up myself. Nothing scientific. 1/3 bees wax, 1/3 crisco, 1/3 technical lanoline which is purchase from a company that sells ingrediants to make cosmetics.

I have found that some of the common factors involved with cook offs but not in total are:
1. Cleaning guns on the line. This one I don't like for several reasons. It means that the gun has to be cleaned between relays in order for it to shoot. Can't tell you how many shooters I've seen on the line with two guys pulling on a gun and cleaning rod to get the patch out. And oh my lord, what to do when the rod comes out without the patch. And this one has nothing to do with the gun but guys, can we at least pick up all the dirty patches.
2. The use of Crisco straight up.
3. Personal theory--Using powder at the bottom of a keg. (powder dust). For those that buy it by the keg, it's a good idea to separate it into smaller containers.
4. Loading fast.
5. Improper cleaning of guns in between shoots.
6. Some lubricants in the cleaning process may be condusive to making cook offs.
7. Temperature.
8. Humidity.
One thing is for sure. No one has the difinitive answer.

[jerry ashley]

In this case after 40 yrs. BRO KNOWS!!!!!!!!!!! See ya soon
Jerry

[Mike McDaniel]

In 34 years of Skirmishing, I've had two cookoffs. Both in rapid fire, both in the summer. I think barrel temperature has a lot to do with it. That being said, I have to agree 100% on the importance of proper loading procedures. Do that, and a cookoff may wreck your nerves, but it won't injure anything else.

[Walt Magee]

Ever notice how there's never a cook off during individuals? I think many cook offs are caused by other shooters next to you during team events.
Walt Magee

[kowdok]

Since I started this thread, I thought I ought to chime in about now. We've got our SBs and have finally tried them out. Mine is a relined Potsdam. I followed many of the suggestions by you guys and found a really good load and bullet and lube that works great at 25yds but sucks at 50yds. I found that 50gr 3f Goex, .678 ball bounced in the coffee can a while, and dipped in MCM lube is what works. I tried Alox with no success. My question is what kind of a group can be expected if you get lucky and find the right load for 50yds? The best I have been able to do with all kinds of loads is to keep the rounds within all the rings. I would be happy with 3 of 5 in the black, but no luck yet. Any thoughts? Marty got Scott's little Richmond and if I can't figure out something, she's going to beat the crap out of me. Please help.

[R. McAuley 3014V]

My question is what kind of a group can be expected if you get lucky and find the right load for 50yds? The best I have been able to do with all kinds of loads is to keep the rounds within all the rings. I would be happy with 3 of 5 in the black, but no luck yet. Any thoughts?
I've heard of at least one score of 50-5x shot at 50 yards, though I did not see this first-hand. But in the Fall National, being my first time shooting smoothbore in individuals, I thought my 76-1x at 50 yards was respectable but I did notice that at the top of the list was a 96-3x. I'm shooting a 24" C.S. Richmond. Does that answer your question?


Marty got Scott's little Richmond and if I can't figure out something, she's going to beat the crap out of me
How's your hospitalization policy? Maybe you just need more insurance coverage?

[pastore]

My question is what kind of a group can be expected if you get lucky and find the right load for 50yds? The best I have been able to do with all kinds of loads is to keep the rounds within all the rings. I would be happy with 3 of 5 in the black, but no luck yet. Any thoughts? Marty got Scott's little Richmond and if I can't figure out something, she's going to beat the crap out of me. Please help.

I am shooting a 30 in Macon conversion. At either the Halloween or Bedford shoot ( I forget which ) I shot a 91or 92 at 50 yds with it. It was a higher score than my 25 yard target.

[R Filbert]

I tell all of my team mates a clean musket is a happy musket smoothies included - Do not push the fowling down the barrel dry as this can lead to a cook off as well as bringing a dirty gun to a shoot clean it well and it will treat you well. Fowling is not you're friend. Military patches can be a problem as well Loose threads remaining in the barrel after the 1st shot - I had this happen to me with this type of patch Only thing I could come up with as they had loose threads -after I changed back to the patches I was using -No more problems. Coke in the breach will create cook offs. As the feed lion says just my 2 cents worth.

[MR. GADGET]

I tell all of my team mates a clean musket is a happy musket smoothies included - Do not push the fowling down the barrel dry as this can lead to a cook off as well as bringing a dirty gun to a shoot clean it well and it will treat you well. Fowling is not you're friend. Military patches can be a problem as well Loose threads remaining in the barrel after the 1st shot - I had this happen to me with this type of patch Only thing I could come up with as they had loose threads -after I changed back to the patches I was using -No more problems. Coke in the breach will create cook offs. As the feed lion says just my 2 cents worth.


You know this post was over 4 years old......

I guess back from the dead.