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hp gregory, 9128
12-14-2010, 12:31 PM
being that the off season is apon us and cabin fevor will soon be kickin in i was thinking about checking the tune on my guns. i like to take the locks out and check everything for wear and tear. if there is any creap in the triggers i like to take care of it. while geting ready to do this i found an article written by dave france on tuning a musket lock. i think he also wrote one on sharps locks. i had read these years ago and had saved them. these are outstanding articles not only for the new skirmisher but for the older more experianced shooters as well. they were written so that it was easy to put them to use and understand. if mr france would be kind enough to post a link to his articles im sure many skirmishers would enjoy reading them.

hp gregory

dml1296
12-14-2010, 02:11 PM
Do you have a link to the article? Hmmmmm. Maybe I should ask Dave. :wink:

Wayne Shaw, 1985V
12-14-2010, 04:54 PM
All The article that HP is refering to is posted on the Northwest Regions Web site. Listed under information, great article to read and copy. Wayne Shaw Harlans Light Cav, SAC

lmcmahon
12-14-2010, 05:31 PM
Here's the link to the Dave France's article on lock tuning. http://www.nwtskirmisher.com/useful-locks.shtml

Dave also has a good article on casting bullets.
http://www.nwtskirmisher.com/useful-casting.shtml

dml1296
12-14-2010, 07:07 PM
Thank you. That's the kind information I have been looking for. Maybe Dave should write a book. :wink: :wink:

DAVE FRANCE
12-14-2010, 09:59 PM
Funny you should say that about writing a book at this time.

I sent an article to Steve Meserve that might be in the next Skirmish Line or the next. It is fairly technical, but worth the time (I think) for people who are really interested in how to make their rifles shoot well and what affects accuracy.

At a friend's request, I took a picture of a Henry that is partially disassembled and put some directions on the picture to show how to disassemble and assemble it. The software that is available on most computers now makes that very easy now.

Pictures of the assembly and disassembly of a Henry make it much clearer that just instructions.

Another thing that has interested me recently is how cowboy action shooters have changed their Henrys and 73 Winchesters to reduce the effort to work the lever. I have a Uberti 73 winchester and most of the things that help in that way were done to it. Most of the things they do are fairly simple, but CAS shooter pay a lot to have that done.


This is sort of off the subject, but I am very impressed at how clever the designers of the Henry were. I worked as a design engineer on engines for 30 years, and I think designing the Henry action would be very difficult without CAD systems that can be used to draw in 3-Dimensions. I read in a couple places that the gun designers did a lot of making wooden pieces to work out the design.

If some of the articles I wrote are published again or put somewhere where they are easily available, I would be happy to update them.

On the subject of casting bullets. Some of the things I learned about casting bullets took me years to learn. When I was writing that article, I some things by talking to skirmishers.

David

DAVE FRANCE
12-14-2010, 10:29 PM
This is a website that has some good pictures and instructions for the 73 winchester disassmbly. Of course the 73 is similar to the Henry.

http://marauder.homestead.com/files/winchester_73.html

lmcmahon
12-15-2010, 09:18 AM
Dave's article is in the next issue of the Skirmish Line which will be in the mail any day. Magazine went to the printer on Monday 12/13.

John Holland
12-15-2010, 10:05 AM
Just a cautionary note -

When Dave noted "Another thing that has interested me recently is how cowboy action shooters have changed their Henrys and 73 Winchesters to reduce the effort to work the lever." This modification is for a "short throw" when working the lever and is an illegal modification for use in the N-SSA.

John Holland
SAC, I.G. Corps, etc.

DAVE FRANCE
12-15-2010, 01:24 PM
John,

I never considered suggesting a short stroke change. Most of the advantage in reducing the lever effort is changing to weaker springs and just polishing everything. Another change that seems iffy to me is the changing to a lower weight carrier block.

David

DAVE FRANCE
12-15-2010, 01:24 PM
John,

I never considered suggesting a short stroke change. Most of the advantage in reducing the lever effort is changing to weaker springs and just polishing everything. Another change that seems iffy to me is the changing to a lower weight carrier block.

David

John Holland
12-15-2010, 04:14 PM
Dave -

I'm sorry I mis-understood your reference. But, it was a good opportunity to get the message out to our newer Henry shooters in regards to the short stroke kits that are prevalent in Cowboy Action. We churn about 300 members every year and for the newer shooters it may be something they would learn via an unpleasant experience on the line. If just one competitor could be saved from a penalty through education I'd be happy.

John

DAVE FRANCE
12-15-2010, 04:45 PM
John,

No problem!

I don't think that most CAS shooters use a short stroke kit. It doen't save but a fraction of a second. There is a second CAS organization NCOWS, that doesn't allow a short stroke kit.

When I moved to Texas I guessed that CAS shooters spent a lot on gunsmithing that didn't amount to much. Now, I think that is true more or less, but reducing the effort to work the lever appeals to me.

David

Bob Huntoon
12-29-2010, 11:44 PM
If you were going to make a change in your Henry, the King's patent that does not allow the hammer to fall while working the lever would be a better use of customizing money than just about anything else. It is my understanding that the earliest Henrys and Model 66's brought in by Navy Arms (late 70's?) has this improvement which would have saved a few folks some Henry grief.

Bob

DAVE FRANCE
12-30-2010, 04:59 PM
Bob,

Yes it would be a help to have the trigger safety or whatever it is called. I know people hit the trigger by accident sometimes when they are working the lever.

David

Lou Lou Lou
12-31-2010, 08:05 AM
Guilty as charged. Any idea as to who can do the modicication for the "King's patent"

Bob Huntoon
12-31-2010, 10:01 AM
Lou,

Bull Saunders had a local gunsmith install one for him. Bull lived in the Petersburg/Tidewater area, but I don't know anything more than that.

My guess would be if you went to the Single Action Shooting Society Wire or the NCOWS equivalent of our Bulletin Board you will probably find a gunsmith with more knowledge of Winchesters and lever actions than we possess.

Digger

Lou Lou Lou
12-31-2010, 12:45 PM
Much obliged. Have a Happy New year

DAVE FRANCE
12-31-2010, 05:13 PM
I must have hit the trigger while moving the lever up on my Henry one time. Since the cartridge was not all the way in, it split open. I don't think it broke any pieces off. It would have been worse if it had a heavy charge of smokeless powder.

That is a good reason to use black powder, even if you shoot the Henry in some other kind of competition.

Another reason is because of the lack of strength in the Henry and similar Winchesters. In a book by David Chicone, GUNSMITHING GUNS OF THE OLD WEST, he says that the original rifles had a farily tight fit between the toggles and the frame. when the round fired that transferred load from the bolt to the toggles and directly into the frame. But without that tight fit the load is transferred to the toggles and through them to the rear link pin that fits in the frame. And he says that can beat out the hole in the frame, even in iron frame rifles that are steel today.

He says that Uberti makes toggles that are longer that can be used to repair a rifle. And he thinks brass frames (that are really gun metal) probably do not stretch. An author of another book I have about materials used in firarms and swords, says the original rifles had a gun metal frame. It is supposed to be more like bronze that brass and is copper, tin, and zinc.

Some authors referred to the brass Heny as having a bronze frame.

David

Musket104
01-05-2011, 08:34 PM
Some of the CAS folks will go to great lengths (and expense) to try to shave a fraction of a second off their time. Short strokes kits, hollowing out the carrier block new / lighter springs. and so on. Sometimes seems like they are trying to make these classic firearms shoot like machine guns! Aside form a bit of deburring, smoothing, and polishing here and there, there is not a whole lot that needs to be done. That said, I'd definitely go for a mod that increases reliability and safety.

Just one Hombre's opinion.