NOE Hodgdon?

[John Westenberger]

I was looking through NOE's website after coming back from nationals, and found their take on the Hodgdon minie, available in 2 and 4 cavity configurations. The multi-cavity mold is appealing, but the minie doesn't look quite right. Has anyone had any experience shooting this variation on the Hodgdon? I know NOE makes nice stuff, but I'm curious if this bullet works as well as a normal RCBS hodgdon. I'm currently shooting Moose's wadcutter, but I could never get it to group quite as well as I wanted at 100 yards, so I'm looking for a change for next year.

[Lou Lou Lou]

Pm sent
regards
lou

[Rebel Dave]

John
I just talked to NOE Moulds today (10-11-23) about the Hodgden type minnie, they make. They are out of stock in all sizes.
I was told they will be going back in production in about a month, and will be available then. I have been watching them for a while now so I thought I would go direct to the head of the stream, and thats what I was told.
The mold also comes with two (2) base pins.
Ther phone # is 801-377-7281.

Hope this helps

Rebel Dave

[J davidson]

My experience with the NOE Hodgdon is that it shoots no where near as well as the
original version. I?ve been shooting the original version for 22 plus years and when
NOE Started making their own I bought 2 cavities in .576 and .578 and was very
disappointed. I couldn?t get it to group at all with 3 different guns it is not an identical
copy. It was too bad as I am a big fan of Al Nelson?s stuff I have over 20 of his molds.
This is just my experience with this particular mold.

[ChrisWBR]

I'm surprised to hear that you couldn't get the NOE bullet to shoot well. Several of my team members have used the NOE bullet and think it's superior to the RCBS Hogdon, especially at 100 yards. I've had excellent luck with it in a two different Muskets. One of my other teammates has done considerable testing with it and found it's definitely more consistent at 100 yards than the original Hogdon. You may not be using enough powder.

[PoorJack]

One of my team members has the NOE Hogdon mold (multi cavity) and I couldn't get them to shoot acceptably either. After the first test session, I went back and checked and the weights were varying by over 15g+. I attribute that to the method of securing the base plug. I've had excellent results with both the RCBS and Moose versions.

1st round flyer, 4 more into one hole. Moose Hogdon-
14073

[J davidson]

Moose makes a hodgdon mold? I didn?t know that, but speaking
to the core pin on the noe I also found that it made casting
very difficult as the bullets would not drop free easily. Even
after seasoning and smoking the mold prior mold release
didnt help either. Again this was just my experience ymmv

[John Westenberger]

One of my team members has the NOE Hogdon mold (multi cavity) and I couldn't get them to shoot acceptably either. After the first test session, I went back and checked and the weights were varying by over 15g+. I attribute that to the method of securing the base plug. I've had excellent results with both the RCBS and Moose versions.

1st round flyer, 4 more into one hole. Moose Hogdon-
14073

Wow! Guess I'm giving moose a call. Does his mould come with the equivalent to the larger base pin Northeast trade sold for the RCBS version?

[PoorJack]

Wow! Guess I'm giving moose a call. Does his mould come with the equivalent to the larger base pin Northeast trade sold for the RCBS version?

I'm not sure but it is different from the stock RCBS one and at this point, I'm not going to tinker with it. As with any minie design the lube is also important. When I test a minie, first I'll find the best group for a given powder charge, then I'll try again with different lubes. It does make a difference.

[John Westenberger]

I'm not sure but it is different from the stock RCBS one and at this point, I'm not going to tinker with it. As with any minie design the lube is also important. When I test a minie, first I'll find the best group for a given powder charge, then I'll try again with different lubes. It does make a difference.

More of a curiosity question than anything else. I knew the different base pin yielded excellent results for many, wasn't sure if moose used the larger pin or not.

I've got Len's lube and a little MCM. I know it makes a difference, but I'm not a good enough shot (yet!) to feel the difference, even off the bench. As long as it rams down easy I'm happy, especially since I currently shoot a 3 bander with a whitacre barrel.

[PoorJack]

More of a curiosity question than anything else. I knew the different base pin yielded excellent results for many, wasn't sure if moose used the larger pin or not.

I've got Len's lube and a little MCM. I know it makes a difference, but I'm not a good enough shot (yet!) to feel the difference, even off the bench. As long as it rams down easy I'm happy, especially since I currently shoot a 3 bander with a whitacre barrel.

When I was working the Hogdon up, the base pin seemed to change only where the "sweet spot" was in the powder charge leading me to believe that the skirt sealed the bore better with the taller base pin.

As for lube, the very best I've found for the Hogdon is my own beeswax/lard/coconut oil/lanolin mix. Lens and MCM work but MCM is better. Head to head, mine beat both.

The group I shot in the pic was with a 1st gen Birmingham Parker Hale 2 band with the factory barrel.

[Maillemaker]

When I was working the Hogdon up, the base pin seemed to change only where the "sweet spot" was in the powder charge leading me to believe that the skirt sealed the bore better with the taller base pin.

As for lube, the very best I've found for the Hogdon is my own beeswax/lard/coconut oil/lanolin mix. Lens and MCM work but MCM is better. Head to head, mine beat both.

The group I shot in the pic was with a 1st gen Birmingham Parker Hale 2 band with the factory barrel.

What is your lube recipe, if you don't mind sharing?

Steve

[PoorJack]

What is your lube recipe, if you don't mind sharing?

Steve

Sure, nothing earth shaking. Beeswax/lard/coconut oil/lanolin. Amount of beeswax will vary with time of year but is generally about 60%ish. Lard/coconut oil in equal amounts. About a tablespoon of lanolin per pound. I found the lanolin helps the lube "adhere" to the bullet better, especially in colder conditions. A further word here, I've found that there is no "one" lube to rule them all. Different guns do have preferences. One of mine shoots best with Len's, another with MCM, but most like the lube I've just described.

You'll have to experiment to see what proportions work best for you. What I've found in very deep diving in muzzleloading forums is there seems to be two groups of shooters- those for whom the basic crisco is good enough and those who know crisco ain't getting it. The former group generally don't care about finding the nth degree of accuracy and don't understand ladder and control of variables in testing. The latter group will spend time and effort in tweaking things and experimenting in what actually works with a set testing regime to isolate cause and effect. Often in deep diving in muzzleloading competition forums it helps to look for the guys tinkering and testing to get some ideas of where to start or maybe something you haven't thought of yet. I found the coconut oil thing in a euro muzzleloading forum. Reading through googly translate can get entertaining but the info I found was from Norway.

One further comment on lubes. Your pet skirmish lube might not be up to the drill in a long shot string. Accuracy may decline, fouling build up, whatever. The lube I've described seems to hold up well in long shot strings when the proportions are correct for the powder you're using and environmental conditions. Case in point, this lube has worked very well in our work with Scouts during the summer. We'll shoot the muskets for the entire afternoon without wiping, brushing, cleaning... anything and they're still running fine when we call the range cold. I've seen it go as many as 60+ shots and the last couple, the kid cut the chains on a gong at 50yd so accuracy wasn't falling off. So one test I use when experimenting with a new lube is how it holds up at shots 15+ for accuracy, fouling and ease of loading. If you get to shots 15+ in a relay, things are seriously off the rails so I feel that's the best number to use for a testing protocol. Example- Here's a group I shot with a custom designed minie for the generic 50cal camp gun found in Scout camp muzzleloading programs-

Details- the group is shot number 16+. I fired 15 shots prior with no wiping or bore maint as a torture test to see how this bullet/lube would perform in a Scout camp setting with a generic rifle. The rifle I was shooting is a nondescript CVA "sewerpipe on a stick". I wanted to see how this load would perform in the worst conditions. I do similar tests when experimenting with lubes in my skirmish guns cuz, it's a rare and wonderful thing when your unit can clear the pigeon board with no more than 5 shots each. If your gun is starting to foul at shots 6+, you best start looking for something else, otherwise you're handicapping yourself.
14081


Just for grins, here's the bullet. It's a modified Enfield pistol minie from prior to the Civil War. Mold is a Brooks design with adjustable base plug to tinker with the weight.
14082

14080

[Kevin Tinny]

Hello, Poor Jack:

Fascinating, helpful info. Thanks.
Please indicate if the lanolin is hydrous or anhydrous?
All the best.

Kevin Tinny

[PoorJack]

Hello, Poor Jack:

Fascinating, helpful info. Thanks.
Please indicate if the lanolin is hydrous or anhydrous?
All the best.

Kevin Tinny

Anhydrous, it came from a pharmacy as a topical ointment.

[Kevin Tinny]

Many thanks, Poor Jack:
Smiles.
Kevin Tinny

[Maillemaker]

Thanks, I will try it out.

I've just been making my lube from Crisco and beeswax with a little vegetable oil to soften it up. I've never experimented with other lubes (other than to make period lubes with beeswax and tallow for experimenting with period ammunition).

Steve

[PoorJack]

Thanks, I will try it out.

I've just been making my lube from Crisco and beeswax with a little vegetable oil to soften it up. I've never experimented with other lubes (other than to make period lubes with beeswax and tallow for experimenting with period ammunition).

Steve

Crisco has been the "goto" for black powder lube for a very long time. When I started to shooting N-SSA, it was my mainstay as well but in the interest of accuracy and understanding the effect of lube on accuracy, I started a deep dive into what others were doing. Way down in a euro muzzleloading forum, I ran into a thread about issues with Crisco. Most of remember when Crisco changed their formula to be more "healthy" and cut down on the blood mud effect. Well, these guys had noticed accuracy falling off right at the same time the "new" Crisco came out. They also were looking for the answer to what had changed. I followed their experiments and tried new Crisco against the last bit of the old I had and yup, there was a difference in accuracy. Well, I didn't have enough old Crisco to think of using it as a lube so I tried what the guys on that euro forum were doing and substituted lard and presto, accuracy was better. Since I'm always looking at ways to make it better, I later ran into the information on lanolin and coconut oil and yup, for most of my guns, accuracy got even better.

Looks like something is working, now if I could figure out the first round flyer....
14083