Glass bedding

[Charlie White]

I have a C.S Richmond musket that I would like to get glass bedded and was looking for recommendations of someone that could it. I thought about maybe doing but have never done one before and not sure how any information or guidance would be appreciated.
Thanks
Charlie

[bobanderson]

Brownells has excellent support. Give them a call..

[Kevin Tinny]

Hello, Charlie:
Tom Nixon, a longtime skirmisher, has a fine reputation for glass bedding musket barrels and locks. He has done hundreds.
If you PM me, please, I can provide contact info.
Please post here if you PM me. Tx.
Kevin Tinny

[Charlie White]

Hello, Charlie:
Tom Nixon, a longtime skirmisher, has a fine reputation for glass bedding musket barrels and locks. He has done hundreds.
If you PM me, please, I can provide contact info.
Please post here if you PM me. Tx.
Kevin Tinny
Pm sent Thank you

[Maillemaker]

There are YouTube videos on doing it you might consider checking out.

I have only done 2 muskets. I use the Brownell's kit. I did full-length bedding.

I used non-hardening modeling clay to pack into all places I did not want resin to go. So I packed the spoon cavity full of clay. On one of my guns, the stock barrel channel had been poorly over-machined and broke into the lock mortise, so again modeling clay plugged the hole.

The critical thing is to make sure there are no undercuts that will cause the barrel to get "trapped". Generally with a muzzleloading barrel there aren't any. Be generous when applying the release agent to the barrel and barrel bands (in case any oozes onto them).

I made a mistake with the first gun I did, a Pedersoli P58, in that I tightened down the tang screw until the tang outer surface was flush with the wood. But I should have tightened further until the bolster bottomed out on the lockplate bolster cutout and let the tang sink deeper in the tang slot in the wood. But I was focused on a good wood-metal fit of the tang and now I have a slight gap between the bolster belly and the lock plate. Functionally it makes no difference but it annoys me. :)

The second one I did was the H&P 1840 conversion I made out of an Armisport M1842. It went perfectly.

I'd say the "trick" to the process is making sure that everything fits right before you start. Have a plan on assembly so you know exactly what you are going to do and look for during assembly because once you mix the epoxy the clock is ticking. You should have some idea how thick you need to apply the epoxy in the barrel channel at different places. A good way to discover this is put little pea-sized balls of modeling clay at various points along the barrel channel, put in the barrel and remove it, and examine the bits of clay. How squished they are gives you an idea how much clearance is there and thus how much epoxy is needed.

I apply painter's tape to the top edges of the stock next to the barrel so that any ooze-out of the epoxy ends up on the tape and thus can be easily removed.

Have some rubbing alcohol and cotton balls or cleaning patches or whatever handy so that you can wipe away oozing resin.

Steve

[Charlie White]

There are YouTube videos on doing it you might consider checking out.

I have only done 2 muskets. I use the Brownell's kit. I did full-length bedding.

I used non-hardening modeling clay to pack into all places I did not want resin to go. So I packed the spoon cavity full of clay. On one of my guns, the stock barrel channel had been poorly over-machined and broke into the lock mortise, so again modeling clay plugged the hole.

The critical thing is to make sure there are no undercuts that will cause the barrel to get "trapped". Generally with a muzzleloading barrel there aren't any. Be generous when applying the release agent to the barrel and barrel bands (in case any oozes onto them).

I made a mistake with the first gun I did, a Pedersoli P58, in that I tightened down the tang screw until the tang outer surface was flush with the wood. But I should have tightened further until the bolster bottomed out on the lockplate bolster cutout and let the tang sink deeper in the tang slot in the wood. But I was focused on a good wood-metal fit of the tang and now I have a slight gap between the bolster belly and the lock plate. Functionally it makes no difference but it annoys me. :)

The second one I did was the H&P 1840 conversion I made out of an Armisport M1842. It went perfectly.

I'd say the "trick" to the process is making sure that everything fits right before you start. Have a plan on assembly so you know exactly what you are going to do and look for during assembly because once you mix the epoxy the clock is ticking. You should have some idea how thick you need to apply the epoxy in the barrel channel at different places. A good way to discover this is put little pea-sized balls of modeling clay at various points along the barrel channel, put in the barrel and remove it, and examine the bits of clay. How squished they are gives you an idea how much clearance is there and thus how much epoxy is needed.

I apply painter's tape to the top edges of the stock next to the barrel so that any ooze-out of the epoxy ends up on the tape and thus can be easily removed.

Have some rubbing alcohol and cotton balls or cleaning patches or whatever handy so that you can wipe away oozing resin.

Steve
Thanks Steve thanks for the information. I checked on YouTube but only found one for a Hawkins rifle I think and the rest was modern day rifles.What do you mean by undercutting and the barrel getting trapped? I see some people cutting wood out then putting the epoxy in do you do that?And no epoxy in the lock area correct? The barrel should lay snuggly in the epoxy. Sorry for all the questions. I saw the pictures of the first one do you have any on the second one? I really want to try to do this myself but don?t want to screw anything up.

[Maillemaker]

Thanks Steve thanks for the information. I checked on YouTube but only found one for a Hawkins rifle I think and the rest was modern day rifles.What do you mean by undercutting and the barrel getting trapped? I see some people cutting wood out then putting the epoxy in do you do that?And no epoxy in the lock area correct? The barrel should lay snuggly in the epoxy. Sorry for all the questions. I saw the pictures of the first one do you have any on the second one? I really want to try to do this myself but don?t want to screw anything up.

If there is any kind of undercut where the epoxy can get into it it will lock the barrel in place. Again I can't think of a muzzle loading barrel where this would be a problem. For example, if the barrel had some kind of lug on the bottom and the epoxy got into the undercut area the barrel is never coming out again.

https://i.imgur.com/3CAONBX.png

Here is my thread on my glass bedding of my Pedersoli P58. This was my first attempt:
https://www.n-ssa.net/vbforum/showthread.php/19260-How-to-go-about-glass-bedding?highlight=glass

Here is my thread on my homemade H&P conversion:
https://www.n-ssa.net/vbforum/showthread.php/14942-The-saga-of-the-home-made-H-amp-P-Conversion!?highlight=glass

Though I don't see any pictures that show the glass bedding. But it went fine. It was my second and last attempt.

Yes, you don't want any epoxy to get into the lock area. Also, you'll want to apply release agent to the exposed areas of the lock as epoxy is likely to ooze into contact with some of it near the bolster.

Also, I feel I should point out here that I have hears some people say there is no benefit in full-length glass bedding, and you only need to bed around the breech. But I figured if I was going to do it I was going to do a full-length bed.

I don't feel this is an impossible job for someone with a little mechanical/tinkering skill. The most important things are to make sure you put mold release on all metal parts that might come in contact with the epoxy. Like the tang screw, barrel, and lock. Make sure you plug any places where you don't want epoxy getting into (spoon channel, lock mortise). And finally, before you mix the epoxy, go through a "dry run" of what you are going to do, making sure you have the right screwdrivers ready to go, some rags and rubbing alcohol to catch drips, and perhaps some toothpicks or plastic scrapers handy to scrape away excess epoxy that squirts up from around the barrel channel. You don't want to be fumbling around for tools after you have mixed the epoxy because the clock is running.

Tongue depressors with the nice rounded end are great tools for spreading the epoxy in the barrel channel. The Brownell's kit comes with 1 or 2. Some extras on hand would be handy.

When you add the colorant to the epoxy it only takes a drop or two. The stuff is extremely powerful at darkening the epoxy. It is better to go too light than too dark, I think, as I think the lighter color stands out less.

When you are done and the epoxy has cured, if the barrel won't come free, don't force it. Don't try to "pry" the barrel out of the stock - you will likely break the stock. There are some tricks you can try to get it to pop free, such as tapping with a rubber hammer, dumping icewater down the bore, etc. You can call Brownell's if you get stuck and they will also give pointers, so they say. I did not have any problems with parts getting stuck but I was very careful to be generous with the release agent.

Or you can send it to Tom Nixon and write a check and know an expert with hundreds of guns under his belt has it covered. :)

Steve

[Charlie White]

If there is any kind of undercut where the epoxy can get into it it will lock the barrel in place. Again I can't think of a muzzle loading barrel where this would be a problem. For example, if the barrel had some kind of lug on the bottom and the epoxy got into the undercut area the barrel is never coming out again.

https://i.imgur.com/3CAONBX.png

Here is my thread on my glass bedding of my Pedersoli P58. This was my first attempt:
https://www.n-ssa.net/vbforum/showthread.php/19260-How-to-go-about-glass-bedding?highlight=glass

Here is my thread on my homemade H&P conversion:
https://www.n-ssa.net/vbforum/showthread.php/14942-The-saga-of-the-home-made-H-amp-P-Conversion!?highlight=glass

Though I don't see any pictures that show the glass bedding. But it went fine. It was my second and last attempt.

Yes, you don't want any epoxy to get into the lock area. Also, you'll want to apply release agent to the exposed areas of the lock as epoxy is likely to ooze into contact with some of it near the bolster.

Also, I feel I should point out here that I have hears some people say there is no benefit in full-length glass bedding, and you only need to bed around the breech. But I figured if I was going to do it I was going to do a full-length bed.

I don't feel this is an impossible job for someone with a little mechanical/tinkering skill. The most important things are to make sure you put mold release on all metal parts that might come in contact with the epoxy. Like the tang screw, barrel, and lock. Make sure you plug any places where you don't want epoxy getting into (spoon channel, lock mortise). And finally, before you mix the epoxy, go through a "dry run" of what you are going to do, making sure you have the right screwdrivers ready to go, some rags and rubbing alcohol to catch drips, and perhaps some toothpicks or plastic scrapers handy to scrape away excess epoxy that squirts up from around the barrel channel. You don't want to be fumbling around for tools after you have mixed the epoxy because the clock is running.

Tongue depressors with the nice rounded end are great tools for spreading the epoxy in the barrel channel. The Brownell's kit comes with 1 or 2. Some extras on hand would be handy.

When you add the colorant to the epoxy it only takes a drop or two. The stuff is extremely powerful at darkening the epoxy. It is better to go too light than too dark, I think, as I think the lighter color stands out less.

When you are done and the epoxy has cured, if the barrel won't come free, don't force it. Don't try to "pry" the barrel out of the stock - you will likely break the stock. There are some tricks you can try to get it to pop free, such as tapping with a rubber hammer, dumping icewater down the bore, etc. You can call Brownell's if you get stuck and they will also give pointers, so they say. I did not have any problems with parts getting stuck but I was very careful to be generous with the release agent.

Or you can send it to Tom Nixon and write a check and know an expert with hundreds of guns under his belt has it covered. :)

Steve
Thank you so much for all the great information this is very helpful.
Thanks again
Charlie

[Carolina Reb]

Here?s are a few thoughts to go with what Steve advised. Not necessarily better, just a little different approach.


If your stock isn?t warped, the most important area to bed is the barrel tang and the back of the barrel where it recoils against the stock. However, if your stock is warped you will want to full length bed. The front of the stock, and the bands, should not be applying pressure to the barrel once bedded. The muzzle should rest in the stock nose cap without the stock pressing or pulling away. If it doesn?t, bed full length.


On some reproductions the bands are tight. If they pinch against the sides of the barrel use a Dremel with a sanding barrel to open them up. It usually doesn?t take much sanding. If they are tight at the top, take a little wood off the bottom of the stock at the band seat. (I recently bedded a EOA Richmond and a James River 55 rifle that had a couple extremely tight bands.)


It is helpful to have the lock plate in the stock when bedding. Strip the lock, install the side nail screws (the long ones that hold the lock in the stock) from the outside of the plate, coat everything with mold release and install in the stock. This way you can be sure that the barrel bolster is seated in the lock plate correctly while bedding, and it?s easy to remove the plate by pulling on the side screws.


I don?t install the bands and tang screw when bedding. Fill the tang screw hole and stock spoon cut with clay, or tape over with painters tape. Apply the epoxy and drop the barrel into the stock. Be sure that the bolster is seated in the lock plate correctly and secure everything with tightly wrapped painters tape just ahead of the bolster and at the band seats.


Do this in the evening just before bedtime. When you get up next morning, remove the barrel and lock plate. The epoxy will still be a little soft and can be easily trimmed out of the stock spoon and tang screw cuts with an exacto knife.


Let the epoxy finish harden for a day or so before assembling your musket.

[Charlie White]

Here?s are a few thoughts to go with what Steve advised. Not necessarily better, just a little different approach.


If your stock isn?t warped, the most important area to bed is the barrel tang and the back of the barrel where it recoils against the stock. However, if your stock is warped you will want to full length bed. The front of the stock, and the bands, should not be applying pressure to the barrel once bedded. The muzzle should rest in the stock nose cap without the stock pressing or pulling away. If it doesn?t, bed full length.


On some reproductions the bands are tight. If they pinch against the sides of the barrel use a Dremel with a sanding barrel to open them up. It usually doesn?t take much sanding. If they are tight at the top, take a little wood off the bottom of the stock at the band seat. (I recently bedded a EOA Richmond and a James River 55 rifle that had a couple extremely tight bands.)


It is helpful to have the lock plate in the stock when bedding. Strip the lock, install the side nail screws (the long ones that hold the lock in the stock) from the outside of the plate, coat everything with mold release and install in the stock. This way you can be sure that the barrel bolster is seated in the lock plate correctly while bedding, and it?s easy to remove the plate by pulling on the side screws.


I don?t install the bands and tang screw when bedding. Fill the tang screw hole and stock spoon cut with clay, or tape over with painters tape. Apply the epoxy and drop the barrel into the stock. Be sure that the bolster is seated in the lock plate correctly and secure everything with tightly wrapped painters tape just ahead of the bolster and at the band seats.


Do this in the evening just before bedtime. When you get up next morning, remove the barrel and lock plate. The epoxy will still be a little soft and can be easily trimmed out of the stock spoon and tang screw cuts with an exacto knife.


Let the epoxy finish harden for a day or so before assembling your musket.
Thanks for sharing your experience lots of good information.
Thanks again
Charlie

[Maillemaker]

It is helpful to have the lock plate in the stock when bedding. Strip the lock, install the side nail screws (the long ones that hold the lock in the stock) from the outside of the plate, coat everything with mold release and install in the stock. This way you can be sure that the barrel bolster is seated in the lock plate correctly while bedding, and it?s easy to remove the plate by pulling on the side screws.

This is an important point I did not mention. I would say it is critical that the lock plate be installed during bedding, because the rear-most lock screw generally passes through a notch in the base of the tang/barrel. If that screw is not in place and you bed the barrel, you won't be able to get the screw through the stock again.

Obviously the screw needs to be generously coated with mold release.

I'm skeptical of not installing the barrel bands and tang screw while glass bedding. I'd be afraid the barrel would be riding too high in the stock and the epoxy would set up and then the barrel bands won't go on. To me, I want that barrel mechanically locked down as it was prior to the bedding so that the bedding ends up only filling in the cavities in the locked-down state. But I'm no expert on this stuff and I've only ever done 2 of them.

Steve

[Charlie White]

This is an important point I did not mention. I would say it is critical that the lock plate be installed during bedding, because the rear-most lock screw generally passes through a notch in the base of the tang/barrel. If that screw is not in place and you bed the barrel, you won't be able to get the screw through the stock again.

Obviously the screw needs to be generously coated with mold release.

I'm skeptical of not installing the barrel bands and tang screw while glass bedding. I'd be afraid the barrel would be riding too high in the stock and the epoxy would set up and then the barrel bands won't go on. To me, I want that barrel mechanically locked down as it was prior to the bedding so that the bedding ends up only filling in the cavities in the locked-down state. But I'm no expert on this stuff and I've only ever done 2 of them.

Steve
Ok thanks again