Topic: Ball And Williams, Ballard Carbines, with Hex Receivers with a 22" barrel length, Military Type Buttplate, .44 cal

[Joe Plakis, 9575V]

So, I think that I might have stumbled onto something and I am asking the group to help me pool resources.





I currently own two, and one has a sling swivel mounted on the buttstock, serial # 19xx and the other does not, serial # 56xx.


At this point I looked at my father's, and his also does not have a buttstock swivel and his is Serial 63xx



My friend Keith has one serial 128xx and his has the swivels



Another friend Matt, has one serial 78xx, and his does not...



The Book on Ballards I have been told states that they are supposed to be there.



What has been noted is that if the swivel is present the portion of the wood between the bottom tang and heel of the buttstock is flattened. Where if the swivel is not present this area is rounded between the tang and the heel of the buttstock.



If you have this specific model and you don't mind digging them out and giving the serial range with a 19XX or 128XX and a picture if you can it would be most helpful.

ALSO, MORE IMPORTANTLY, DID YOU HAVE ONE THAT DID NOT HAVE THE SWIVEL? AND DID YOU ADD IT??????
1326613267

[bobanderson]

S/n 6xx. Restored, center fire conversion and inspected/approved by the original owner.

13270

[Joe Plakis, 9575V]

Bob is that original wood and an original swivel?

[bobanderson]

Bob is that original wood and an original swivel?

Probably original hardware, can't speak to the wood but could be.

It think I remember the seller telling me he got the parts on Sutler's Row, so I know it was restored to compete
in the N-SSA. He's a master toolmaker and has done a few Ballard's, so it's possible.

I'll ask him for you.

[bobanderson]

The seller says it is all original components, but probably not to this gun. It was assembled using a picture of another gun in the same serial number range as a guide.

Not sure how that helps you.

[Jack C., 69th NY]

I did a check of 13 military Ballards in my collection. I checked Ball & Williams hex and rounded receivers, large frame Dwight & Chapin assembled by Ball & Williams, R. Ball as well as Merrimacks and Browns. 12 have swivels present on the butt stocks. One Brown was missing its screw in swivel. However, in the last couple of days, I did observe on Gunbroker 2 or 3 hex receiver Ballard military carbines without any provision for a butt stock swivel and each appeared to have a rounded lower edge of the butt stock and not the customarily recognized flat surface by the lower tang. The later, R. Ball, Merrimacks and the Browns had rounded lower edge on the wood. All I can add is that one can go "by the books" but don't be surprised if you find a flat side or a rounded lower surface, with or without swivels. Variations, for no apparent reason do exist If they could talk, we might know the reason why. Remember that the Ballards were used for many years after the war and there was an inherent weakness in them. Untold number of Ballard carbines cracked or broke in the wrist area. It is very possible that these stocks might have been repaired or replaced with no provision for a butt swivel....just an observation offered. So the question lives on.