Civil War Uniforms, We need an Archive.

[Tom Arliskas]

Just sitting here, retired. CW Uniforms-- Well we wear them in competition and have since 1949, the year I was born. In 1949 there was not a whole lot of research around on CW uniforms. The North wore Blue and the South wore Gray. Then came the Butternut Brown phenomenon and everyone was putting on cinnamon colored trousers or jackets. Then came a kind of sorta CW uniform based on the Official Records drawing and old ideas of what a CW might have looked like. That is all well and good, but today 2023 we need an Archive of CW Uniforms for the N-SSA. A collection of notes on the best articles and research out there. We have it on guns and do we have it on Artillery? That too!

[John.Hayes]

I can think of no one better situated for that lofty task than yourself. jh

[H.Liniger]

Echoes of Glory by Time Life Books has 87 pages dedicated Confederate uniforms and hats. HL

[Maillemaker]

Just sitting here, retired. CW Uniforms-- Well we wear them in competition and have since 1949, the year I was born. In 1949 there was not a whole lot of research around on CW uniforms. The North wore Blue and the South wore Gray. Then came the Butternut Brown phenomenon and everyone was putting on cinnamon colored trousers or jackets. Then came a kind of sorta CW uniform based on the Official Records drawing and old ideas of what a CW might have looked like. That is all well and good, but today 2023 we need an Archive of CW Uniforms for the N-SSA. A collection of notes on the best articles and research out there. We have it on guns and do we have it on Artillery? That too!

What you are asking for is a very tall order. You could do decades of research and produce a multi-volume series of books on the subject of "Clothing and Accoutrements of Civil War Soldiers - 1860-1865"

I remember when I got into this stuff 10 years ago, and I started asking questions over on The Authentic Campaigner - probably the best source on the internet for authentic information about Civil War reenacting. Unfortunately, the folks over there are generally hostile to basic questions, as they expect that you should go and read some level of information before asking relatively specific questions. The problem is a new person doesn't know what they don't know.

It's common to hear, "I want to do Civil War reenacting. I want to be a Confederate. What should I buy?"

The answer almost always boils down to "What unit, and what date during the war?"

What the new person is hoping for is some kind of "generic" answer, but that is very hard to produce. Really, it's impossible. At a minimum, you have to consider early, mid, or late war, and eastern vs. western theaters.

I've read an account somewhere that indicated that my unit (4th Louisiana Delta Rifles) left home at the start of the war with fancy green uniforms with fringe. I'm guessing some kind of "mountain man" getup. This clothing probably did not last long, and then they started getting supplied through whatever the supply chain was for whatever theater of operations they were in as the years went by.

On the Confederate side, at the start of the war, a lot of units were custom-outfitted by a wealthy patron (sometimes being the person who raised the regiment or whatever). Others left out with state militia gear. Others with whatever they left out from home with. There was a "commutation" system (https://www.authentic-campaigner.com/forum/military-forums/authenticity-forums/research-articles/5578-what-was-the-commutation-system) where you could get reimbursed for your homemade uniform. As the war progressed and arsenal supply chains stabilized, more or less.

The guys that are able to trace down the actual clothing and equipment that specific units were using have spent a lot of time pouring over quartermaster receipts and similar surviving documentation. For a lot of units, we just don't know as the documentation doesn't exist or hasn't been found yet.

I wonder if the new ChatGPT AI bots will be able to help with this kind of thing in the future. It would be fun to ask it, "What would a typical Confederate soldier be wearing in 1863 if they were in the 4th Louisiana Delta Rifles?

[Tom Arliskas]

What you are asking for is a very tall order. You could do decades of research and produce a multi-volume series of books on the subject of "Clothing and Accoutrements of Civil War Soldiers - 1860-1865"

I remember when I got into this stuff 10 years ago, and I started asking questions over on The Authentic Campaigner - probably the best source on the internet for authentic information about Civil War reenacting. Unfortunately, the folks over there are generally hostile to basic questions, as they expect that you should go and read some level of information before asking relatively specific questions. The problem is a new person doesn't know what they don't know.

It's common to hear, "I want to do Civil War reenacting. I want to be a Confederate. What should I buy?"

The answer almost always boils down to "What unit, and what date during the war?"

What the new person is hoping for is some kind of "generic" answer, but that is very hard to produce. Really, it's impossible. At a minimum, you have to consider early, mid, or late war, and eastern vs. western theaters.

I've read an account somewhere that indicated that my unit (4th Louisiana Delta Rifles) left home at the start of the war with fancy green uniforms with fringe. I'm guessing some kind of "mountain man" getup. This clothing probably did not last long, and then they started getting supplied through whatever the supply chain was for whatever theater of operations they were in as the years went by.

On the Confederate side, at the start of the war, a lot of units were custom-outfitted by a wealthy patron (sometimes being the person who raised the regiment or whatever). Others left out with state militia gear. Others with whatever they left out from home with. There was a "commutation" system (https://www.authentic-campaigner.com/forum/military-forums/authenticity-forums/research-articles/5578-what-was-the-commutation-system) where you could get reimbursed for your homemade uniform. As the war progressed and arsenal supply chains stabilized, more or less.

The guys that are able to trace down the actual clothing and equipment that specific units were using have spent a lot of time pouring over quartermaster receipts and similar surviving documentation. For a lot of units, we just don't know as the documentation doesn't exist or hasn't been found yet.

I wonder if the new ChatGPT AI bots will be able to help with this kind of thing in the future. It would be fun to ask it, "What would a typical Confederate soldier be wearing in 1863 if they were in the 4th Louisiana Delta Rifles?

AWESOME! Yes, when you get down to actual time lines and specifics, the uniforms changed often in four years of War. You can and did have early, middle and late war changes for the Confederacy, not so much for the Union side, but there were special exceptions like Zouaves or special orders for uniforms. What I am proposing is a collection of notes on CW uniforms, in the collections of N-SSA Members. We have had and still do have people with extensive knowledge on CW stuff from guns to shoes! I fear that will be lost with time. How many have already passed or quit who had extensive collections of letters and diaries or photos of the team or unit they represent, or just had notes like me. This collection would not and should not be used as a hammer to new units or even the old ones, but as a guide and source for research. It is all part of our 5013C History Status with the IRS. Your 4th LA statement of uniforms with fringe! I am doing Shiloh right now for my book on guns and the 4th LA was in Gibson's Brigade. I have notes on their guns and some photos but that is it. This uniform thing you mentioned should be saved and put in a library reference. Not Rocket Science. Tom13146

[Tom Arliskas]

I can think of no one better situated for that lofty task than yourself. jh

AND! I have put in your name as my qualified assistant in all things Uniform!!!

[John.Hayes]

Not quite, sir, I've read your book. I'm hoping you will produce another one or two soon. Thank you. jh

[Tom Arliskas]

Yes, Well I thought about it-- but, am doing or writing a books on Smoothbores vs. Rifles, Did it make a difference first-- and then I have some titles I want to finish on Grant at Belmont, and Missouri in 1861. Yes, I have found a lot of new research on uniforms, but will include those in my folders.

[TCLewis]

Hi Tom,

I think its a good idea and as previously mentioned its a tall order. While reading the different replies to your post I wondered if the N-SSA has a historical board? I would guess we do since we have a museum but not sure of how much say there is with unit uniform accuracies. I think that the CS side has so many variances depending on theater of war, state, depot, and importer. I know when I started my unit I did countless hours of research and I am still fine tuning details of what was or could have been worn. I know there are some great resources and new details that get uncovered every few years.

[Maillemaker]

It's just a huge, huge, amount of research and publication. The best approach would probably be to crowd-source and use some kind of online Wiki that individuals could add to over time.

From following along with reenactor friends, the way it is typically is that they usually reenact with a particular organization or unit. Then they will "dress the part" for whatever time period the reenactment is for that unit. They will research that unit, and try and find quartermaster records or other materials that indicate the kinds of equipment and arms and such that were issued by that point in time during the war. Where exact details cannot be known they rely on known supply depots and the known time periods when certain equipment became available.

So you can approach this from a few ways. The first way is as above - start with a unit and a date. This is only particularly interesting if you are interested in that particular unit. But, it's probably going to give you the most accurate specific impression.

Another way would be to create an inventory of "things". For example, "The 1861 Spingfield Musket" or "The Type II Columbus Depot Jacket (https://web.archive.org/web/20060210173015/http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/Quarters/1864/cd/cdjacket.htm)". Then you populate an article about the item that indicates dates in use, units that used it, etc. This gives you highly accurate details about things, but doesn't always help very much figuring out if the thing is the right one for you.

Another way would be to go with "generic soldier kit" descriptions. "Early War" vs. "Mid War" vs. "Late War", "Western" vs. "Eastern" theaters, "Union" vs. "Confederate". This is probably the simplest way to go but is also quite generic.

No matter how you go about it, it's a daunting and massive undertaking. Likely a lifetime of effort doctorate-level effort. Schuylkill Arsenal trousers or J.T. Martin Contract trousers? Contract shirt or Federal Issue? Cincinnati Depot canteen or Philadelphia Depot canteen?

Then, too, a tremendous amount of work has already been done and published. Which on one hand could make it easier to create some kind of compendium but on the other hand risks duplicating work that has already been done.

Here are some fantastic videos by Lionheart Filmworks that give great overviews on generic "by time and theater" uniforms.

They have a 4-video series on this that will show up in the sidebar when you watch the one below on YouTube.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLoq9vNvvFQ

[Maillemaker]

Here is another good video I found:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ov5wZ-gfQxc

[Tom Arliskas]

Here is another good video I found:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ov5wZ-gfQxc

Awesome-- This is the type of information needed. The N-SSA membership for sure has more and that source of information cannot be lost. When a member passes or moves away and the family has no interest, a lot of it simply disposed of. We can have a depository for small arms, cannons, equipment and uniforms... It is all good information and necessary. Tom

[Tom Arliskas]

Hi Tom,

I think its a good idea and as previously mentioned its a tall order. While reading the different replies to your post I wondered if the N-SSA has a historical board? I would guess we do since we have a museum but not sure of how much say there is with unit uniform accuracies. I think that the CS side has so many variances depending on theater of war, state, depot, and importer. I know when I started my unit I did countless hours of research and I am still fine tuning details of what was or could have been worn. I know there are some great resources and new details that get uncovered every few years.

Good already got you thinking--- You can do one Regiment, a Brigade, and Army on research and never finish. Tom

[Tom Arliskas]

It's just a huge, huge, amount of research and publication. The best approach would probably be to crowd-source and use some kind of online Wiki that individuals could add to over time.

From following along with reenactor friends, the way it is typically is that they usually reenact with a particular organization or unit. Then they will "dress the part" for whatever time period the reenactment is for that unit. They will research that unit, and try and find quartermaster records or other materials that indicate the kinds of equipment and arms and such that were issued by that point in time during the war. Where exact details cannot be known they rely on known supply depots and the known time periods when certain equipment became available.

So you can approach this from a few ways. The first way is as above - start with a unit and a date. This is only particularly interesting if you are interested in that particular unit. But, it's probably going to give you the most accurate specific impression.

Another way would be to create an inventory of "things". For example, "The 1861 Spingfield Musket" or "The Type II Columbus Depot Jacket (https://web.archive.org/web/20060210173015/http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/Quarters/1864/cd/cdjacket.htm)". Then you populate an article about the item that indicates dates in use, units that used it, etc. This gives you highly accurate details about things, but doesn't always help very much figuring out if the thing is the right one for you.

Another way would be to go with "generic soldier kit" descriptions. "Early War" vs. "Mid War" vs. "Late War", "Western" vs. "Eastern" theaters, "Union" vs. "Confederate". This is probably the simplest way to go but is also quite generic.

No matter how you go about it, it's a daunting and massive undertaking. Likely a lifetime of effort doctorate-level effort. Schuylkill Arsenal trousers or J.T. Martin Contract trousers? Contract shirt or Federal Issue? Cincinnati Depot canteen or Philadelphia Depot canteen?

Then, too, a tremendous amount of work has already been done and published. Which on one hand could make it easier to create some kind of compendium but on the other hand risks duplicating work that has already been done.

Here are some fantastic videos by Lionheart Filmworks that give great overviews on generic "by time and theater" uniforms.

They have a 4-video series on this that will show up in the sidebar when you watch the one below on YouTube.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLoq9vNvvFQ

These are just one part of the whole research study. My idea is to put it all together in one spot for people, if they wish, to look at. You have no idea talking to Archivists or Collectors what they have or have hidden in their stacks. It is amazing stuff and just overwhelming at times. One person even two cannot do it all, put it together. 100 heads in this case are better than one. Tom

[PoorJack]

When it comes to authentic uniforms, the guys over on Authentic Campaigner are spot on especially when it comes to Confederate uniforms. Federal stuff was pretty much more uniform after the early war confusion. When talking about a specific Confederate unit, you have to be specific as to time during the War. Ex, during the Siege of Petersburg, NC units were fairly well supplied while "orphan" units from states cut off by enemy movements often had to make do, beg, borrow or steal what they needed. In general, the Confederacy was never really "uniform" and states, like NC, were frequently at odds with Richmond over supply isses

Another thing to remember, that video is primarily about "issue" Federal items. In the Federal army, and Confederate, troops would carry items not on the "issue" list that would make their lives a bit easier or a cherished item from home and family. As such, it would behoove anyone who wants to go down this road to be very, very familiar with civilian items and other things in common usage at the time. I say this as a former "stitch counting" reenactor. Little extra things can make your impression so much more realistic than a cookie cutter- they only had this xyz thing. Remember, there were items in common use among civilians, and just because the troops were no longer civilians, doesn't mean they quit using them.

[Tom Arliskas]

[QUOTE=TCLewis;94503]Hi Tom,

I think its a good idea and as previously mentioned its a tall order. While reading the different replies to your post I wondered if the N-SSA has a historical board? I would guess we do since we have a museum but not sure of how much say there is with unit uniform accuracies. I think that the CS side has so many variances depending on theater of war, state, depot, and importer. I know when I started my unit I did countless hours of research and I am still fine tuning details of what was or could have been worn. I know there are some great resources and new details that get uncovered every few years.[/QUOTE

Yes, There is no such thing as an expert. You can have knowledgeable and studies, but no one has all the information on CW uniforms. There are stacks at Brown University and other places. We need a place for our N-SSA Research.

[Maillemaker]

We need a place for our N-SSA Research.

The internet. :)

[John Holland]

Tom - You said, "My idea is to put it all together in one spot for people, if they wish, to look at." On behalf of all of the people who step up and freely volunteer their personal time and expertise to the betterment of the N-SSA, I want to thank you for stepping up to create the "Uniform Reference Database" which you have identified as an extremely important and much needed reference tool! I have no doubt that by working through your Region Commander, John Mark, there will be no problem whatsoever having National Commander, Chuck Kindle, create said committee and appoint you as Chairman! Your talents in uniform research are already highly respected by all who know you and those who have read your books. Along with that you have been a member of the Uniform Committee for many years, so I am quite sure those comrades would be more than happy to assist you in your endeavor!

I offer you my best wishes, as you move forward with this most worthy project!

Sincerely,
John Holland
N-SSA Small Arms Staff Officer
Chairman, Small Arms Committee
N-SSA Bulletin board Moderator
North-East Region Artillery Officer
North-East Region Assistant I.G.
44th NY VI Unit Commander
Admin, North-East Region FB page

[Tom Arliskas]

Tom - You said, "<font color="#333333"><em>My idea is to put it all together in one spot for people, if they wish, to look at</em>." On behalf of all of the people who step up and freely volunteer their personal time and expertise to the betterment of the N-SSA, I want to thank you for stepping up to create the "Uniform Reference Database" which you have identified as an extremely i</font>mportant and much needed reference tool! I have no doubt that by working through your Region Commander, John Mark, there will be no problem whatsoever having National Commander, Chuck Kindle, create said committee and appoint you as Chairman! Your talents in uniform research are already highly respected by all who know you and those who have read your books. Along with that you have been a member of the Uniform Committee for many years, so I am quite sure those comrades would be more than happy to assist you in your endeavor!<br>
<br>
I offer you my best wishes, as you move forward with this most worthy project!<br>
<br>
Sincerely,<br>
John Holland<br>
N-SSA Small Arms Staff Officer<br>
Chairman, Small Arms Committee<br>
N-SSA Bulletin board Moderator<br>
North-East Region Artillery Officer<br>
North-East Region Assistant I.G.<br>
44th NY VI Unit Commander<br>
Admin, North-East Region FB page<br><br>Thank You Mr. Holland. Besides uniforms, I would love to see a collection of material on CW Arms. Again, how many have I met that have binders full of Arms Information, Ordnance Reports, notes etc. that is not on the NET. I want to make up a reference source and catalog on notes and those binders again on both Confederate and Union uniform history. Their is a lot on the NET-- but, we do have members who have extensive collections of notes on Uniforms and Equipment's. This is not intended as a weapon or to make anyone feel uneasy about anything with uniforms. I have know several people who just passed away their collections lost-- thrown out or given away-- that should have been put in a safe place for History. I keep finding new items everyday. It will be an N-SSA Archive of note. Where we will put it is one thing we have to consider. Virginia, Brown University? What I do not want is to donate to an Archive then have it disappear!!!!!!!!! That has happened! Thank You for your confidence in me. You are the only one so far [a joke]. See you in May!!!&nbsp;<br>
<br>

[Tom Arliskas]

The internet. :)

That is just one place... There is a lot of papers and binders out there that need to be cataloged and made available. Not everything is on the NET! Believe me.

[Maillemaker]

What I meant was, you should digitize the material and put it on the internet. Digital data lives forever.

If you are trying to create a physical archive of artifacts and data, I wouldn't advise it. First, it is of limited utility to all - only those who live nearby it. Second, you'll need to pay to have a place to house it. I would not advise donating things to museums. Unless it is a particularly noteworthy piece, it will likely be put in storage. Museums also will sell off things they do not intend to display. If you have to give something to a museum, it should be loaned to a museum so that if they no longer want it it gets returned to its owner.

If you want to create some educational materials on uniforms (or whatever material culture), I recommend learning how to make videos and copy the examples I posted above. Post them to the video hosting site of your choice. Then they are available to the world.

Steve