Making Sharps Cartridges.....questions....advice

[RaccoonRough]

Okay. So, I now have a Pedersoli 1862 Confederate Sharps carbine.
I have two different molds so far......both erasgonebullets.com molds.

One is the .54 Richmond Sharps and the other is the new Flees ring-tail Sharps.

I would love to be able to shoot the Richmond Sharps bullet, so i want to start with it. It has a heel on it so the paper cartridge can be glued to it.

Question #1: What sort of paper do you guys use to make the tube part of the cartridge paper? Tracing paper? Particular brand or weight?

Question #2: What sort of paper do you guys use for the end of the cartridge, where the flash burns through? Tissue paper?

Question #3: Are these cartriges sturdy enough to be loaded into a cartridge box and such for competition?

Advice? Loads?

I was going to do the following at the start...... Measure the depth of my chamber, then make some paper cartridges, start with around 45 grains or 3F goex and go up to 50 and then 55 to start. Then dip the whole front of the bullet up the cartridge in lube.

[Fred Jr]

Hi, I have been shooting a Shiloh Sharps for about 40 years. It is a .54. I use a ring tail bullet and Charlie's tubes. . My load is 42g of 3f Goex with no filler. You will need to measure the length of the chamber. The tubes come in various sizes. to get the tubes ready to load I take womens curling paper and cut it in small pieces just a little than the tube. I dip the tube in some elmers glue and put the stick the tube on one of the little squares. When I finish a tray of them I just burn the extra off. Then I charge the tubes. After that I use a little finger nail polish on the ring tail and insert the bullet in the full tube. there are several ways you can lube them. I just melt some lube and apply it to the grooves only. I don't think it is wise to lube the whole bullet. I do not size the bullets. i know some guys do.

I hope that helps. Feel free to give me a call 724-591-1461

Have fun!!
Fred 12TH PA
1097V

[Bob Hatfield]

Mike Beliveau (duelist 1954) on You Tube has a video posted in the last week on making linen cartridges with those same bullets......The linen preparation process looked easier than I thought.

Bob

[Carolina Reb]

Go to Hahn Machine Works on the web. Charlie sells his tubes and other cartridge making tools there, and instructions are posted, including how to figure out which tube length to order. They work great. I close the back with tracing velum. My load is 35 gr. of Old Einford 2F and cream of wheat filler to top off the tube. Charlie says not to use filler, but it works great in my Sharps. Old E powder is not currently available. Hopefully it will be back soon. 35 gr of Swiss 1.5F works almost as well.

You can stop by Charlie's booth at the National on the east side of Sutlers row. He will be glad to help you get going.

[RaccoonRough]

Thanks to all of you that responded. I picked up some advice at Nationals and others.
I am just going to make up some cartridges and give it a shot.

[Maillemaker]

Here are a couple of videos I made on how I make the cartridges for the Eras Gone Richmond Sharps bullet:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XVLIxtHNW4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-euXltDMzMA

During the Civil War, federal arsenals switched from paper to linen for the cartridge bodies. This was a very fine linen that is unavailable today. It was last produced into the 1940s as "Drafting Linen". Very high thread count, very fine linen that was heavily starched and sized and run through heated rollers to create essentially fabric paper. This was used to make engineering an architectural drawings. I found a roll on ebay and rolls of New Old Stock still show up from time to time. I made some cartridges of it and it is fantastic. The blast permeates the fabric and it is the most complete-burning cartridge material I have encountered.

I experimented with nitrated paper. It does indeed cause the paper to burn to ash more completely, but it also makes the cartridges very susceptible to cooking off. If even the slightest spark touches the outside of the cartridge it will go off. I never had this happen but worried what might happen upon pushing a fresh cartridge into a chamber with an ember in it. It's probably low risk because the lubed bullet should push anything out of the way and/or snuff anything out. But I have found that nitrating is not necessary and is simply added work and not worth the risk. Even cartridges made of ordinary printer paper only at worst leave a slight husk of charred paper in the chamber/bore. It crumbles at the slightest touch so I do not think it is any harm to accuracy for the next round.

Richmond Laboratories Sharps bullets made with either paper or linen make for very fine, durable cartridges. I use "hair curler paper" for the tissue end cap.

The new Larry Flees bullet is fantastic. First, it is designed to use Charlie Hahn tubes, which makes cartridge making very easy as you don't have to roll your own. The Hahn tubes also blast to bits on firing and are very clean shooting. They are also essentially thin, rigid cardboard which makes for a very handy, durable, rigid cartridge.

The Flees bullet has a front driving band that is under .52" in diameter (I forget the exact diameter). It is designed to fit INTO THE BORE of the gun. None of the other Christmas Tree bullets I have tried will do this. Not even the Pedersoli mold. By allowing the front band to ride into the bore, you help insure a good, consistent, coaxial chambering of the bullet. This is conducive to accuracy. The bullet stops when the second driving band contacts the rifling. So the second and third bands are engraved on firing. Well, in fact the front band probably is also, but not due to direct engagement with the rifling but due to the bullet "bumping up" due to collapsing along its length when fired. I haven't yet recovered one of these bullets to verify this but I suspect it will be found to be true as this is how cartridge Sharps bullets engage the rifling.

When I make up cartridges with the Flees bullet and the Hahn tubes I use 42 grains 3F Goex. I then put an unlubricated fiber wad .45-.46" in diameter and 1/2" thick on top of the powder. This exactly fills the space under the bullet. Hahn does not recommend filler - he recommends you glue a punched out 1/2" cardboard disk over the top of the powder, and I have done this, and it works fine. I just find the fiber wads less mess and fuss. I do not worry about air gaps in the Sharps cartridge as the receiver, barrel, chamber, and action of the Sharps is massively strong.

[RaccoonRough]

Thanks, yes I have viewed your videos. Well done and helpful for sure.
I have both of the Sharps Erasgonebullet molds........so I will work up both to see which one shoots better.





Here are a couple of videos I made on how I make the cartridges for the Eras Gone Richmond Sharps bullet:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XVLIxtHNW4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-euXltDMzMA

During the Civil War, federal arsenals switched from paper to linen for the cartridge bodies. This was a very fine linen that is unavailable today. It was last produced into the 1940s as "Drafting Linen". Very high thread count, very fine linen that was heavily starched and sized and run through heated rollers to create essentially fabric paper. This was used to make engineering an architectural drawings. I found a roll on ebay and rolls of New Old Stock still show up from time to time. I made some cartridges of it and it is fantastic. The blast permeates the fabric and it is the most complete-burning cartridge material I have encountered.

I experimented with nitrated paper. It does indeed cause the paper to burn to ash more completely, but it also makes the cartridges very susceptible to cooking off. If even the slightest spark touches the outside of the cartridge it will go off. I never had this happen but worried what might happen upon pushing a fresh cartridge into a chamber with an ember in it. It's probably low risk because the lubed bullet should push anything out of the way and/or snuff anything out. But I have found that nitrating is not necessary and is simply added work and not worth the risk. Even cartridges made of ordinary printer paper only at worst leave a slight husk of charred paper in the chamber/bore. It crumbles at the slightest touch so I do not think it is any harm to accuracy for the next round.

Richmond Laboratories Sharps bullets made with either paper or linen make for very fine, durable cartridges. I use "hair curler paper" for the tissue end cap.

The new Larry Flees bullet is fantastic. First, it is designed to use Charlie Hahn tubes, which makes cartridge making very easy as you don't have to roll your own. The Hahn tubes also blast to bits on firing and are very clean shooting. They are also essentially thin, rigid cardboard which makes for a very handy, durable, rigid cartridge.

The Flees bullet has a front driving band that is under .52" in diameter (I forget the exact diameter). It is designed to fit INTO THE BORE of the gun. None of the other Christmas Tree bullets I have tried will do this. Not even the Pedersoli mold. By allowing the front band to ride into the bore, you help insure a good, consistent, coaxial chambering of the bullet. This is conducive to accuracy. The bullet stops when the second driving band contacts the rifling. So the second and third bands are engraved on firing. Well, in fact the front band probably is also, but not due to direct engagement with the rifling but due to the bullet "bumping up" due to collapsing along its length when fired. I haven't yet recovered one of these bullets to verify this but I suspect it will be found to be true as this is how cartridge Sharps bullets engage the rifling.

When I make up cartridges with the Flees bullet and the Hahn tubes I use 42 grains 3F Goex. I then put an unlubricated fiber wad .45-.46" in diameter and 1/2" thick on top of the powder. This exactly fills the space under the bullet. Hahn does not recommend filler - he recommends you glue a punched out 1/2" cardboard disk over the top of the powder, and I have done this, and it works fine. I just find the fiber wads less mess and fuss. I do not worry about air gaps in the Sharps cartridge as the receiver, barrel, chamber, and action of the Sharps is massively strong.

[PoorJack]

I think you're putting the cart before the horse. As with any of these guns, you need to know your actual bore size before choosing a mold. While Eras has a reproduction of the original bullet, if it doesn't match your bore dimensionally, you're wasting time and money. Some Sharps repops are notorious for large bores, for example, IAB. I have 2 and they both measure .550 meaning a bullet from an Eras mold would be too loose and "rattle" down the bore and likely have terrible accuracy. Once you have the bore dimension in hand, then it's time to decide on either Charlie's Tube or roll your own. Either way, welcome to the world of Sharps.

[Maillemaker]

With a breech loader, you will also need to know your groove diameter. If your bullet is over bore but under groove you will have a lot of blow-by. Bullet needs to be a couple of thousandths over groove diameter.

Only reason you're really interested in bore diameter in the Sharps is if you are trying to utilize a bore-riding bullet.

Steve

[PoorJack]

Here's a pic of one of my IAB Sharps groups. Both of mine shoot like this. Mold is one of George Gompf's that was cut to match my bore. Both my Sharps measure .550 to the base of the grooves and the mold drops at .555 and both have the Larry Flees mod. I used to use Charlie's Tubes but in head to head comparison, my hand rolled are a tad better. Not by much but to be completely honest here, Charlie's Tubes are light years more convenient. Since I'm after accuracy, I'll suffer with hand rolling my own. I use simple copier paper sized to make 3 turns on the tube walls. I roll them on a lathe turned mandrel to fit the heel of the bullet. Other than that, I load them the same as Charlies Tubes. I don't use filler. Instead I have glue a small wad over the powder down in the tube. Lube method most definately can affect your accuracy. Many will just dip the entire bullet up to the cartridge but I found "painting" it in the grooves with a brush to work better. Between my rolled tubes and lube method, I've pretty much eliminated any fliers. One further comment, be careful what adhesive you use when attaching the bullets to the tube. Not all white glues are formulated alike and I've found Duco cement to work rather well.

12858

Here's a pic of the same Sharps, the only change was the powder charge level. Note that both pix have a shot a bit to the right of the main group. That's the first shot from a clean, cold bore. This gun does the same that my Parker Hale does in that regard. With my Sharps though, it's close enough that on a pigeon board, I don't change my point of aim. It's center hold, then rock and roll.

12859