Knurled vs. grooved Smith tubes

[Maillemaker]

Hi all,

After discovering that the new hard black plastic Smith tubes only last about 5-6 shots before splitting, I have investigated brass tubes.

Initially I bought 5 of them from Lodgewood. These have a grooved tail. The case mouth is about .514" in diameter. The powder chamber is about .390" in diameter. Then I picked up 100 cases from a shooter here on the forum that have a knurled tail. They are much better in that they have about a .518" case mouth, and the powder chamber is about .431" which allows it to hold 32 grains of powder 3F Goex, which is what I have found to work best (for 3F Goex, which is all I have tried).

For Pietta Smiths, I've been sizing to .515, whereas my original seems to like a bigger bullet (my teammate is shooting the Eras Gone Smith as-cast - about .518" in diameter).

Does anyone know who made the knurled version? I like the larger case mouth and powder chamber.

https://i.imgur.com/u5JZJ2pl.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/T54NuMKl.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/FL20jH1l.jpg

[krawls]

The knurled tubes were sold by Navy Arms.

[Muley Gil]

Hi all,

After discovering that the new hard black plastic Smith tubes only last about 5-6 shots before splitting, I have investigated brass tubes.

Initially I bought 5 of them from Lodgewood. These have a grooved tail. The case mouth is about .514" in diameter. The powder chamber is about .390" in diameter. Then I picked up 100 cases from a shooter here on the forum that have a knurled tail. They are much better in that they have about a .518" case mouth, and the powder chamber is about .431" which allows it to hold 32 grains of powder 3F Goex, which is what I have found to work best (for 3F Goex, which is all I have tried).

For Pietta Smiths, I've been sizing to .515, whereas my original seems to like a bigger bullet (my teammate is shooting the Eras Gone Smith as-cast - about .518" in diameter).

Does anyone know who made the knurled version? I like the larger case mouth and powder chamber.

https://i.imgur.com/u5JZJ2pl.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/T54NuMKl.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/FL20jH1l.jpg

Here's some for sale. I know it sounds like a bunch of money, but maybe you could split the cost with a teammate:

FS Smith Brass - Barely Used (n-ssa.net) (https://www.n-ssa.net/vbforum/showthread.php/21779-FS-Smith-Brass-Barely-Used)

[Maillemaker]

Here's some for sale. I know it sounds like a bunch of money, but maybe you could split the cost with a teammate:

FS Smith Brass - Barely Used (n-ssa.net) (https://www.n-ssa.net/vbforum/showthread.php/21779-FS-Smith-Brass-Barely-Used)

I saw those, but they are the grooved-tail kind. I like the knurled kind.

Steve

[Muley Gil]

It wouldn't be hard to knurl those.

[Gary Vikar]

I knurled mine back in the late 80. Bill Norse suppled an the sutlers at the spring and fall national. I use to haul all the brass tubes from Grand Rapids to the Fort for Bill. He also made gallager tubes, Maynard tubes and Burnsides tubes. People complained about the smith tubes being hard to extract. His fix was to put the two grooves on the rear of the brass tube. When he lost his job for a plumbing supplier he moved to Florida. Lost contact with him in early 2000's. Great guy who loved skirmishing. The reduced tube he made held 28 grains of 3f.

[Maillemaker]

It wouldn't be hard to knurl those.

It's not the knurling I like - grooves would be fine as far as knurled vs. grooves. It's that the knurled tubes have a .518" case mouth and hold 32 grains of 3F powder due to the large powder chamber.

In our Pietta Smiths, we've found best accuracy with the Eras Gone Smith bullet sized to .515 with 32 grains of 3F Goex. The .515 bullet might fit in the grooved case mouth, but it doesn't hold enough powder.

My original Smith likes a .518 bullet. That won't work in the grooved tubes at all.

Now, I can certainly take the grooved tubes and have them reamed out to accept a bigger bullet and more powder. But it looks like these knurled tubes are exactly what I want. Sadly it doesn't seem like they are manufactured anymore.

Steve

[ms3635v]

If the black tubes are made with reground material that could possibly be the reason they are are splitting after only five to six times. My son-in-law has been shooting the black tubes for at least five years. I purchased several hundred tubes about fifteen years ago and there were very few failures.

[Maillemaker]

All of my black tubes were purchased new from Lodgewood in the last 2 years or so. They started splitting after a season.

[Big Grit]

I've have been shooting the the black tubes for 15 years along with teammates, I've yet to see one split. The only problems were the flash holes which was solved by adding rivets.

[Maillemaker]

I've have been shooting the the black tubes for 15 years along with teammates, I've yet to see one split. The only problems were the flash holes which was solved by adding rivets.

I added rivets first thing when they were new.

Steve

[Hal]

Most of the time, mine begin splitting at the flash hole. I must admit, I never tried the rivets. Maybe one day. However, the worst one I ever had split, split on the side wall with the flash hole still intact. Burnt the "L" out of my left index finger which was positioned under the joint between the front and rear halves of the receiver.

[danajhanson]

Please tell me more about the rivet modification...
Size, techniques, tricks, etc...

Do you just use common pop rivet?

DJH

[Maillemaker]

You need the proper size pop rivet - 3/32". You remove the pin and are left with the "shell". Shaped like a top-hat. You press it into the bottom of the tube in the vent hole.

Grainger sells them, as well as others. North East Trade Company sells just the "shells" made of brass. I find they corrode less than the aluminum ones.

https://www.n-ssa.net/vbforum/showthread.php/18245-Plastic-Smith-tubes-with-brass-rivet