Model 1850 Potsdam Pistol

[gmkmd]

Is the model 1850 Potsdam pistol an approved arm for the smoothbore pistol competition?

[Bruce Cobb 1723V]

Did you find any records of who bought them?

[Don Dixon]

I believe that this will answer your question.

Early in 1880 the U.S. Army sold 176 serviceable, smoothbore, single shot, .60 caliber Prussian pistols, and 220 unserviceable, smoothbore, single shot, .60 caliber Prussian pistols, which were on hand at the U.S. Ordnance Agency and New York Arsenal. The citation is Catalogue of Ordnance and Ordnance Stores on Hand at United States Ordnance Agency and New York Arsenal for Which Sealed Proposals Will Be Received Until Twelve O'Clock on Wednesday, February 11, 1880, Washington, DC: Government Printing Office, 1880. A copy is available in the Army historical collection at Carlise Barracks. The massive sale which included these pistols involved Civil War period firearms and swords almost exclusively. The only reason that the pistols would have been on-hand in this quantity would have been a purchase during the Civil War by the Federal Ordnance Office. I have no idea who the importer/vendor would have been.

Hi John!

Regards,
Don Dixon
2881V

[John Holland]

I thank Don Dixon for this most interesting information! However, the N-SSA would have to know if the Model 1850 that Glenn is inquiring about are the ones that were imported.

[gmkmd]

I believe they would have had to be the model 1850, or the model 1849, as they were the only two models of Prussian percussion .60 caliber (actually 15.2mm, or .598 caliber) smoothbore pistols.

[Don Dixon]

See the attached page from the U.S. Army's arms sale catalog referenced above. The only pistol that I know of that would match the description in the catalog is the Muster 1850 Prussian pistol. What more proof would one need? Its clearly more than the 100 specified in the N-SSA rules. And, the "worn" descriptor for the unserviceable weapons tends to indicate that someone used them in the "unpleasantness." I assume that the term "C. & R." in the descriptions means cleaned and repaired:

11532

As you know John, as I continue to root through the ordnance files at the Archives I keep coming up with stuff/variations that no one has ever heard of before. The model numbers that collectors have created to describe Civil War firearms didn't exist at the time of the war, and the Ordnance Office didn't use those model numbers to describe what it had in inventory. Hell, after having gone through large amounts of the Ordnance Office's files I don't think that it ever knew what it had in inventory. In this case, the Ordnance office probably issued U.S. .54 caliber ammunition to use in them because it was close enough for government work.

Regards,
Don Dixon
2881V

[Muley Gil]

Looks like they had almost 400 Prussian pistols-176+218+2=396.

[Don Dixon]

I continue to root through the ordnance records at the National Archives. The Abstract of Reports of Sales of Ordnance Stores at Depots and Arsenals, 1864-1907 (RG156, Entry 124, Vols 6, 8, and 9) lists the following additional sales of ".60 caliber" Prussian single shot pistols:



29 June 1869 by the New York Arsenal to James Moore's Sons


Number
Caliber
Condition
Price/each
Total


175
.60
Cleaned and Repaired
.50
105.00


193
.60
Unserviceable, 1st Class
.50
96.50


23
.60
Unserviceable, 2nd Class
.30
6.90


2
.60
Unserviceable
.25
.50


4 November 1895 by the New York Arsenal to Charles L. Fitzhugh


1
.60
Unserviceable
.30
.30


25 April 1900 by the New York Arsenal to J.J. Dimock


2
.60
Unserviceable
1.00
2.00


TOTAL: 396







Thus, Prussian pistols continued to come out of the black hole of the Ordnance Office's arsenals for a protracted period of time, with a total of 792 of them being sold. Yes, I know that the numbers and descriptions of the pistols sold in 1869 and in 1880 are the same. Clearly there were many more of these pistols than the 100 necessary to meet the N-SSA's standard for original weapons.

Hi John

Regards,
Don Dixon
2881V