Breechloader Reduced Loads. How Reduced is TOO Reduced?

[Hal]

The thread on flinching got me to thinking about maybe re-working some loads. While I shoot musket, it's really only to support the team. My passion is for breechloaders. It's easy to reduce a load in a musket. Just don't use as much powder. Breechloaders are another story. There's a chamber or cartridge case than needs to be full. I generally use Cream of Wheat as a filler to take up the space in front of my reduced powder charge. I read once many years ago that you should never reduce a black powder load below 50/50 powder to filler. Has anyone else ever heard this? Is it a real problem or just something imagined by some internet 'expert'? Is anyone loading more filler than powder and getting away with it?

I must admit, I have never gone below the 50/50 ratio when doing load development, but if there is no real problem, then I would venture into that area and see what kind of groups I could get. An added bonus is that Cream of Wheat is a lot cheaper than powder. And as a good Southern boy, I have no other use for it. The down side is that you have to make sure no one you know sees you buying it.

[CAGerringer]

"Breechloader Reduced' Loads. How Reduced is TOO Reduced? (https://www.n-ssa.net/vbforum/showthread.php/20681-Breechloader-Reduced-Loads-How-Reduced-is-TOO-Reduced)"

We had a fellow a few years back, that was working on the theory that 'you should shoot the most reduced load that will remain accurate'. (He will remain anonymous... unless he wants to out himself.) Anyway, he reduced his Maynard carbine load till he had almost no recoil at all and he was putting all his shots in a paper Skeet target. Then the first time on the line, you could hear the slugs hitting the tiles with a ceramic "TINK!", but they didn't break. They actually bounced off!
I think its fair to say, that Reduced Load was TOO Reduced!!!
Respectfully,
Charlie Gerringer
Old Dominion Dragoons

[Tom Magno, 9269V]

"Breechloader Reduced' Loads. How Reduced is TOO Reduced? (https://www.n-ssa.net/vbforum/showthread.php/20681-Breechloader-Reduced-Loads-How-Reduced-is-TOO-Reduced)"

We had a fellow a few years back, that was working on the theory that 'you should shoot the most reduced load that will remain accurate'. (He will remain anonymous... unless he wants to out himself.) Anyway, he reduced his Maynard carbine load till he had almost no recoil at all and he was putting all his shots in a paper Skeet target. Then the first time on the line, you could hear the slugs hitting the tiles with a ceramic "TINK!", but they didn't break. They actually bounced off!
I think its fair to say, that Reduced Load was TOO Reduced!!!
Respectfully,
Charlie Gerringer
Old Dominion Dragoons

Funny! I've seen light-loaded rounds stick in the cardboard backer board on the pigeon board event.

[Bruce Cobb 1723V]

Like everything in our sport it is all about experimenting.

[Harry Gaul]

Hal,

I thought you Southern Boys use grits for filler? Do not get me wrong, I like grits. I acquired a taste for grits when I lived in Decatur, Ga. back in the early 70's. I like the taste of grits, and then again I am from Southern Pennsylvania. :D

Harry in Pa.
03626v

[Maillemaker]

Alright who deleted my post poking fun at my friend Hal?

Steve

[Hal]

Harry,

I used to use grits for filler, as we always have plenty around the house, but something possessed me to try Cream of Wheat. It seems to measure a lot easier than grits. I use dippers to measure it with and it fills the dipper more consistently and is practically self striking with a quick tilt of the dipper. I must admit I've never been possessed to try it for any other purpose.






Steve,

Are you in trouble........... AGAIN?

[Maillemaker]

I guess. I was making fun of your powder puff loads and how our team motto is "my cheek hurts". :)

Somebody evidently thought I was being a meany.

See you next month at Brierfield!

Steve

[efritz]

Experiment. I once tried a doing that with a .45 LC Ballard. Had fairly good results with a 320 grain custom bullet and 18 gns 2F Swiss at 50 yds. My testing was showing me to slow it down til I got down to the 18 gns. Beyond that and the curve stated back down. Using a chronograph I averaged approximately 760 FPS. I ultimately settled on 22 gns 1 1/2 f Swiss running at approximately 850 FPS. But. One has to consider 100 yds and perhaps a windy day. It?s tempting and has its merits but reality sucks. That?s why it?s common to use reduced loads indoors.

[Hal]

Just to be clear, I wasn't asking about how low can you go and still break clays or penetrate cardboard. My question is more about, is there any danger in having a load that has more filler than powder?

[Jim_Burgess_2078V]

I suspect there may be a problem with too much filler in bottle-neck cases like the .44-40. If the amount of filler goes below the neck, firing all that non-combustible material through the constriction of the neck could elevate chamber pressures. How dangerous this might be with a light charge of black powder is uncertain. I wouldn't try it myself and definitely not with smokeless powder. I shoot 24 grains of FFFg in my Henry with just enough COW filler in the neck to compress the load. Recoil is hardly noticeable so why go lighter?

Jim Burgess, 15th CVI

[Maillemaker]

The only thing I would worry about is a squib load where the bullet does not leave the barrel and instead causes a bore obstruction. Hard to imagine a load light enough to do that but that's all that comes to my mind. I know it's a concern with modern reloaded ammunition with no powder and only primer blast.

Steve

[efritz]

Steve
as u stated always a concern but I once fired by mistake a 45-70 in my trap door rifle with no powder at 50 ft. indoors. The primer was enough to reach and hit my paper target. I saw the paper move and scoped the target to see a hit at the bottom of the paper. Then immediately check my bore. All good. We shoot single shot stuff with squib loads. Winter time trigger time.