M1851 Swiss Federal Rifle

[Jim_Burgess_2078V]

A friend recently loaned me a M1851 Swiss Federal rifle no doubt hoping I would bond with the rifle and buy it from him. I don't believe any of these rifles were used in the Civil War so it would not be legal for N-SSA competition. However, the rifle is in shooting condition and would be fun to shoot if I could fabricate the proper ammo. The problem is, it is .41 caliber and I'm not aware of any commercially available Minie or compression (Wilkinson) moulds in that caliber. I suspect the only alternative is a custom mould but I'm reluctant to spend the money if I decide not to purchase the rifle. The original bullet was an elongated conical with a greased cloth patch tied around its base. However, a Minie or compression style bullet would likely also work. Anyone have any mould suggestions?

Jim Burgess
15th CVI

[John Holland]

Jim - If you happen to have a Face Book account, go to the "Rifle Musket Shooters Club" page. It is hosted by a machinist by the name of Robert Bradley. His forte is making reasonably priced custom moulds. He likes the unusual, and has recently made a Russian conical mould with two lugs for the Russian Brunswick Rifle as used in the Crimea. He is also a very nice fellow.

[Don Dixon]

A bullet for a Muster 1851 Swiss Feldstutzer or Federal rifle is a tough problem.

I have three of the rifles, all with slightly different bore diameters. That wasn't a particular problem for the Swiss because they used lubricated, patched bullets. The patching took up the slight variations in bore diameter since the rifles - like the class two Enfields - were hand and machine made to standard gauges. Over the service life of the rifles they used three different bullets: the first was a cloth patched, solid conical; the second was a paper patched, conical compression bullet (somewhat like the Wilkinson/Lorenz bullets); and the last was a paper patched, hollow based conical. Go to the Swiss ammunition site - http://www.ch-munition.ch (http://www.ch-munition.ch/) - which has illustrations of all three. Look under Papierpatronen (paper cartridges) and Vorderlader (muzzle loader). It's all in German but the pictures are universal. That will give you an idea of what the bullets looked like.

Where to get a bullet mould?

Mine is a one-off amateur machining project by a former owner of one of my rifles. The mould casts a duplicate of the Swiss hollow based bullet. He made it large enough that it can be sized down and shot "naked," and it shoots very well in all three rifles with 55 grains of Swiss (naturally) FFFg, but he made it very clear he had no interest in making any more of them.

The Geman company Vollmer made a small run of M1851's about 30 years ago (less than 2,000 I think). They were intended for international muzzle loading competition. The accompanying bullet mould also cast a copy of the hollow based bullet. One will occasionally see the moulds for sale on the German shooting site http://www.eGun.de (http://www.egun.de/). They generally go for 150 to 200 Euros.

In the U.S. the following company copied the hollow base Swiss design. I don't know if they still make the moulds and can make no recommendations regarding their work:

Doughty Bullet Moulds Richard "Old Vic" Doughty
email: doughty@blackfoot.net
P.O. Box 36
Plains, MT 59859
-CNC milled, lathe bored, and cherry cut designs; standard & custom designs. Brass & iron, 1 to 4 cavity.

I'm not sure if the email and snail mail addresses are still good.

During the Civil War the Federal Army imported one Feldstutzer and one Federal rifle for foreign materiel intelligence exploitation, so you are correct that they are not legal for use in the N-SSA. I wish that they were.

Regards,
Don Dixon
2881V

[gmkmd]

Here is an excellent video about recreating the original ammunition for, and the history of, the Swiss 1851 Feldstutzer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMBfUxmXK1c

P.S.- if you're not interested in buying it, I am.

[Dave Fox]

Just acquired today a Swiss 1851 Feldstutzer at the particularly swell Dalton, Georgia Civil War relic show. Now, of course, need its peculiar bullet mold. Tried Mr. Doughty's e-mail as set out above but my e-mail was rejected. See he's referred to elsewhere as "Doughty Molds", "Doughty Enterprises", and the like. None opens any sites for me. Any joy finding him?

[geezmo]

Dave,

According to a post on the Shiloh Rifle Forum they are no longer in production. But, they list a bunch of other custom mold makers. See here. Http://www.shilohrifle.com/forums/view (Http://shilohrifle.com/forums/view)topic.php?t=21281

A pretty nice Feldstutzer with an original mold just sold today on Gunbroker for a buy now price of $1,000. I saw it this morning, thought about it and went back to hit buy now but I was too late. You snooze you loose.

Good luck,
Barry S.

[Dave Fox]

I'm on the same quest. Acquired a fine M.1851 Swiss Feldstutzer at last month's Dalton, Georgia CW show. The bullet seems to be a nominal 10.4 mm with a shallow hollow base. This appears to be pretty-much the .41 Swiss Vetterli bullet. Old West Moulds makes such a mould but they are currently physically moving and I can't make contact. A Gettysburg outfit, Paper Cartridges (www.papercartridges.com) sells the 10.4 mm Vetterli hollow base bullets. I just ordered some and they haven't come in yet. A German firm, www.bestellung@hensel-giesskokillen.de, makes the exact, proper hollow base second pattern M.1851 bullet mould. I MAY have placed an order. Hard to tell from our exchange. Their English, tho' faulty, is a deal better than my German.

[Don Dixon]

A Gettysburg outfit, Paper Cartridges (www.papercartridges.com (http://www.papercartridges.com)) sells the 10.4 mm Vetterli hollow base bullets. I just ordered some and they haven't come in yet.

The Paper Cartridges Vetterli bullet probably won't work for you in your Feldstutzer. The .429 inch diameter of their bullet is the groove diameter, not the bore diameter. It will probably work very nicely in the breechloading Vetterli but not the muzzleloading Feldstutzer.

Regards,
Don Dixon, 2881V

[rmark]

I think Accurate Bullet Molds 40-289MN is intended for the .41 Swiss Federal rifle.

[Jim_Burgess_2078V]

Here's an update on the Swiss Federal rifle in excellent condition: It's still for sale. Bayonet is included. My friend who loaned it to me last year is trying to sell it for another friend of his. He has had a price tag of $2000 on it but he might entertain offers better than the one I made for $1200 (which was rejected by the owner). The rifle will be available for viewing again at the next Virginia Gun Collectors show at the Prince William County Fairgrounds in Manassas, March 26-27 (same weekend as the Early Bird which I will regretfully miss due to the conflict).

Jim Burgess, 15th CVI