Smith case problemSo

[Steve Weems]

I recently purchased a used Smith in excellent condition as I could not stand being carbineless any longer. I had shot Smith?s before and had a plentyfull Supply of the Black hard cases and Bullets to fit.
As soon as I loaded the first round it refused to lock down the barrel where I then learn about the short chamber issues the hard way. So I either send it off to have the chamber reamed to proper size or use the red clear vinyl types that come with the gromets in place.
So the big question in my mind is does the red ones work as accrurately as the black hard ones?? Are there any other issues to be concerned about? Help will be appreciated!

[ms3635v]

Steve,

Are the black cases brand new? The black cases will enlarge with use. I tried the rubber ones and they were not as accurate as the black plastic.

[Lou Lou Lou]

It might be easier to file the cases shorter. Had a buddy who was gonna trash 200 brass cases. Just needed one pas with a file.

[Steve Weems]

Steve,

Are the black cases brand new? The black cases will enlarge with use. I tried the rubber ones and they were not as accurate as the black plastic.

The problem is with both new and once or twice fired cases.

[Steve Weems]

It might be easier to file the cases shorter. Had a buddy who was gonna trash 200 brass cases. Just needed one pas with a file.

Tried Lou?s suggestion and barrel closed at a reduction just under .1 inch ?.008/.009.

[Maillemaker]

Wow that is quite a bit shorter.

You will have the same problem with stock red rubber tubes, by the way. The ones I bought are the same length essentially.

Steve

[Maillemaker]

I recommend Larry Flees for Smith work. He fixed mine up, including the chamber.

Mine had a drill bit broken off in the cleanout channel from the factory.

Steve

[Ben Nevlezer]

I hate to assume but, by red tubes, are you referring to the Yore supply tubes??? I have had OUTSTANDING results with them in 4 different original Smiths with very few case failures. PM for my 2 cents worth of opinion.

[Steve Weems]

I hate to assume but, by red tubes, are you referring to the Yore supply tubes??? I have had OUTSTANDING results with them in 4 different original Smiths with very few case failures. PM for my 2 cents worth of opinion.

Yes I am thinking of the Yore tubes? I was told they work in this carbine. I may try shortening a little less to see where the critical length is with the black cases. Thanks for sharing your experience with the Yote tubes.

[bobanderson]

I recently purchased a used Smith...

I wonder if someone tried to repair a burned out touch hole and put a washer in the chamber?
I have a Pietta Smith. It would be interesting to compare chamber depth and length.

I concur, ask Larry Flees.

[Steve Weems]

I wonder if someone tried to repair a burned out touch hole and put a washer in the chamber?
I have a Pietta Smith. It would be interesting to compare chamber depth and length.

I concur, ask Larry Flees.

Bob-- i measure chamber depth at .41 from flash hole to breech face and .91 from rear of barrel to beginning of riffling. my Black hard plastic case run 1.41. My shortened black case is 1.25 so i could probaly try 1.30 + or -.
These are all measured with out the grommet. Flash hole looks good.
Good suggestion to actually measure chamber areas.

Steve

[Kevin Tinny]

Hello:

I see your photo of the two cases with that much visible chamber length difference.
Am not aware of THAT MUCH difference in original Smith's.
Maybe someone here can help us on that.

The S&S black plastic cases w 3/32" pop rivet should fit original's with no closing resistance.
If resistance, shorten until none.
Then test that case OAL with bullet of choice seated so BULLET CAUSES no closing resistance.

I found that metallic cases were sizing my optimal fitting bullet smaller in their rigid necks. So I switched to S&S's black ones. I lightly chamfered the mouth edge with a swivel deburring tool to make bullet base edges seat squarely.

Tested a single S&S w Grainger 3/32 alum pop rivet, 33gr Swiss 3F and a 365gr Bly altered Lyman 515 bullet for TWENTY shots. No sticking, extraction or mouth dim changes. Only the case OAL shortened .002". Rivet = case life.

You can take the rivet equipped S&S case and add .002" layers of Scotch tape until closing resistance. Then one less .002" thickness is the "practical" case length.

Thanks, Bob Anderson, John Bly, Phil at S&S and Big Grit. Smiles.

Edited to add comment about visible difference. K

Kevin Tinny

[Kevin Tinny]

Back again:

Sorry, but that side-by-side cases photo strikes me.

Is it possible your barrel is lined, please?
Some Smith barrel liners are only TO the chamber.
If lined maybe the liner was seated a bit into the chamber area.

For me, the easiest dimension to evaluate if your chamber is "short" more than a minimal (tolerances) amount is the depth of the chamber portion from the end of the bevel to the shoulder at the start of the rifling. The tail of a good vernier calipers can measure this dimension. But please take the measurement at three spots and keep the tail against the chamber wall.

Unaltered originals of mine and other skirmishers have that depth dimension at nominally 1.030 OVERALL, including the .086" bevel.

Please keep us posted. Thanks.
Kevin Tinny

[Steve Weems]

Kevin?As per your question I measured bevel to shoulder three times and came up with these:
.921, .924, and .924 at three different places. I do not see any sign of a reline? I have had Bobby Hoyt
do numerous relines over the years and even though he does an excellent job of blending I can usually tell
on very close examination the reline. I have used these same exact black tubes with no modification in a previous Pietta Smith with no problems.
This Smith is from 2001 which is well after the batch with the infamous reverse rifling that could only be cured by relining.
i am glad you raised the question on measuring bevel to shoulder as my first effort was a little off.

[Kevin Tinny]

Thanks, Steve:
Helpful for the next guy.
Just to be sure, since you mentioned the batch w reverse bore, is yours an original or a repro Pietta, please? Tx.
Kevin

[Steve Weems]

Thanks, Steve:
Helpful for the next guy.
Just to be sure, since you mentioned the batch w reverse bore, is yours an original or a repro Pietta, please? Tx.
Kevin

Kevin it is a reproduction Pietta and yes if someone who did not know about the possibility of a short chamber they will verify before buying. Steve

[Kevin Tinny]

Big connection, Steve:

A while back there was a Thread here about a Pietta Smith with hard closing issues that caused it to pop open during firing. With the help of our Smith GURU's, the cause was traced to long cases. I don't recall that the "short" chamber issue was included in that Thread.

Perhaps the short chamber "feature" should be added to the LIST OF PIETTA WOES that include reverse taper bores, gorilla strength trigger pulls, drill bit tips stuck in flash channels and short threaded bolster screws.

It's the weekend....
This reminds me of other imported repro QC situations and questionable practices:

Years ago, a large and still active importer of Italian repro's asked two of our esteemed members to find and deliver a nice original Sharps to be sent to Italy as a pattern. By coincidence both members were in the importer's office on the day the first of three were received by new owners. In the manager/owner's office, they listened to a call from from owner #1. He reported that the rifle wouldn't fire and the firing pin imprint was located on the case lettering about an eighth-inch away from the center of the primer. The importer instantly responded with: "We didn't think anyone would fire them".
IF ALL Italian firearms are GOV'T proofed and marked, ???

That same importer failed to disclose a barrel caliber swap to the wife of a friend who bought a repeating rifle as an anniversary present. The barrel swap made cycling ctg's
from the magazine impossible. After a lot of calls and a visit to the importer, the long-term female warehouse manager told me that "they had done this a few times when that caliber was out of stock". The importer's owner still refuses to honor a warranty claim, with the excuse that the rifle passed Italian proof, so contact them.

In the legendary words of the wife of "Monkey Business" Senator Gary Hart:
"Trust, but verify."
Edited for typo's. K
Smiles and thanks.
Kevin Tinny