Some bore-riding Sharps bullets ready to go

[Maillemaker]

Larry Flees sent me some of these bore-riding Christmas tree bullets. The front driving band is .51 in diameter, which allows it to fit in the bore. Hopefully this will ensure good alignment with the bore on loading, and give good accuracy. I'm going to try them out this weekend. I'm using Charlie Hahn's tubes. They sure make great cartridges!

https://i.imgur.com/eOA1EHhl.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/Iap3Fgyl.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/JZYDITvl.jpg

Full-size pictures here: https://imgur.com/a/5yTLvsV

[Obi2winky]

Is that a special bullet mould? Looking forward to updates! I have a sharps that I?m figuring out what mould to get for.


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[Maillemaker]

I don't know the particulars of the mold - Larry Flees sent me some bullets to experiment with. If they work we can all harass Larry. :)

Steve

[Hal]

Looks very much like my Moose Sharps Christmas Tree in .544"

[Maillemaker]

Sadly the weather is going to suck this weekend so no testing this weekend.

Steve

[Maillemaker]

Well, the weatherman was wrong and there was no rain today, so after chores I snuck out to the range.

This bore-riding bullet is a shooter. I've been struggling with this Pedersoli 1859 Sharps Carbine since 2016. I've tried the Pedersoli Christmas tree, the Lee/Rapine Christmas Tree, the Bob Anderson "Bobtail", and the Eras Gone Richmond Sharps. I've experimented with different sizing dies, 2F and 3F powder. Sometimes during load workups I'd get a decent group, but it never was consistent.

Larry Flees send me a few dozen of this variant of Christmas tree bullet. Like any Christmas tree bullet, it has 3 driving bands, with the top-most band being the smallest, and the bottom-most band being the biggest. It has a tail sized to fit in Charlie Hahn's tubes. For my Pedersoli P1859, I needed 1.625" long tubes to reach the end of my chamber.

Unlike any other Christmas tree bullet I have tried, this one's smallest driving band is small enough that it fits into the bore. So, it is a "bore riding" bullet.

A bit of an aside here:

When I was doing load workups for a Pietta Smith carbine, I tried the flexible red rubber tubes and the rigid black plastic tubes. I got much tighter groups with the rigid black plastic tubes. With the red rubber tubes, it was trivial to end up with the bullet cocked in the case mouth - the tube was so flexible that it did not force the bullet to align with itself (and thus the bore). The black rigid tubes are so rigid that the bullet is forced into absolute alignment with the cartridge tube (and thus the bore). I believe this is what caused the difference in accuracy between the black rigid tubes and the rubbery red tubes. Needless to say I only use the black tubes now.

I am involved in various Sharps forums, and most of them focus on people shooting cartridge guns. I don't have one, but I pay attention out of interest, and have learned that cartridge Sharps shooters very often have bullets that extend very far out of the cartridge into the bore.

https://i.imgur.com/Q0pNNn3l.png

I remember being confused about this when I saw pictures of folks' cartridges with paper patching, and wondered how the paper was not ripped off the bullet by the rifling. I asked and that is when I learned that the paper portion of the bullet fits into the bore. When the gun is fired, the bullet collapses on itself lengthwise, swelling to take up the rifling in the process. This is called "bumping up" by the shooters of such rounds. People shooting these cartridge Sharps get phenomenal accuracy with them.

So back to this bore-riding percussion Sharps bullet.

All the bullets I have tried to date do not bore ride. Most of them bottom out on their nose ogive and the bore. The Pedersoli bullet has an under-sized nose that is almost cylindrical, and could be a bore-rider, but it is too under-sized to really ride the bore. The Pedersoli and Lee/Rapine Christmas tree bottom out against the bore with the top driving band.

Thus none of these bullets self-align in the bore.

This bullet from Larry does.

Something else I will note. This is my first experience using Charlie Hahn's tubes. To date I have always rolled my own tubes from paper. Either because the bullet won't fit Hahn's tubes or just to save from having to buy tubes. Upon loading into the chamber, my paper tubes often buckle/collapse as I push them fully into the chamber. Presumably there is some fouling on the throat that is making full insertion difficult, and when I push hard enough to get the tail of the cartridge flush with the chamber opening the tube buckles/collapses. You can feel this happen. I don't know what effect, if any, there is there on accuracy.

But with Hahn's tubes, you get a very rigid cartridge that never buckles or collapses on loading. They also disintegrate completely on firing. My paper tubes often leave a charred husk in the chamber or bore. The rigidity of the Hahn tubes may play some role in ensuring that the complete cartridge lies neatly in the chamber, aiding in alignment with the bore.

In any case, this bullet from Larry absolutely shoots. It is providing sub-MOA performance. This is the best group I have ever gotten out of this gun.

https://i.imgur.com/zwi9TM2l.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/Wzeet9ql.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/noOq4tGl.jpg

Full-sized pictures here: https://imgur.com/a/fnf8gQl

[Maillemaker]

https://i.imgur.com/CvB69h9l.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/5cwHAlLl.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/ZTPt1mrl.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/3yJBMBKl.jpg

[Obi2winky]

Nice targets! So now we need access to the mould. I have a Pedersoli Sharps to feed :)


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[Maillemaker]

As you can see, 42 grains 3F Goex and 48 grains 3F Goex provided group sizes under an inch in diameter. This is the kind of group I look for for my competition guns - a single ragged hole torn in the paper at 50 yards off a bench. This bullet does it.

I believe the key here is what the cartridge Sharps shooters have already discovered - having the bullet "chambered" while inserted into the bore aligns the bullet with the bore, and this improves accuracy.

Steve

[Obi2winky]

Some of the bpcr guys will use a seater to first seat the patched bullet into the bore first, then put a charged case behind it. They cut their throats differently in the chamber for this method.


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[Michael Bodner]

Impressive... Now we need make and model of the mold. Unless Larry is willing to cast bullets for EVERYONE!!! LOL

[Obi2winky]

Impressive... Now we need make and model of the mold. Unless Larry is willing to cast bullets for EVERYONE!!! LOL

Second that!


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[Maillemaker]

The mold is purchased from Accurate Molds.

This is the mold:

https://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=55-440FN

Warning: Do not order the mold without first checking with Larry Flees. The details will change depending on what gun you have (and its bore size). Confirm all mold details with Larry before ordering. The design as shown will work with Pedersoli barrels, but may not work with others.

You will have to have the mold shipped to Larry so he can modify the mold and machine a core pin to enable the use of Charlie Hahn's tubes.

Current cost of the mold (3/32/2021) is $153 with shipping. Then you have to pay Larry to do his magic.

These are the details I chose (going from memory to make this post). Again: check with Larry before ordering anything.
https://i.imgur.com/haQ57AOl.png

Steve