Taylor's Spencer Rifle, Approved or no?

[noonanda]

Question for John Holland or others that would know. Per the SAC Handbook the the Spencer Rifle Model 1860 made by L. Romano Rifle Co. (.56-50 only) is approved for skirmish use. The Spencer Carbine Model 1865 made by ArmiSport (Taylor?s & Co., .56-50 only) is also approved.

Is the Spencer Rifle Model 1865 made by ArmiSport (Taylor?s & Co., .56-50 only) approved for skirmish use? It is not currently listed, is there a reason or has no one submitted one for SAC approval?

[Eggman]

Well I don't have one of these critters (Taylors) but I am a hard core Spencer shooter (original beater) so this inquiry peaks my curiosity. Quit shoveling your driveway John and and answer the question.

[Kevin Tinny]

No, sorry:

Don't shovel. Gray beards are too important. Lost friends shoveling.
And the info is searchable here. At least three threads/posts w J's input.

Smiles.
Kevin

[Eggman]

Two problems with that -- memory all gone to s__t, ---- and 97% computer illiterate.

[FirinFlatTop]

it looks like it is listed to me. Not sure if you looked down the list far enough.

Spencer Rifle Model 1860 ___________ Barrels
Makers 1) L. Romano Rifle Co. (.56-50 only) 1)No production approvals

Spencer Carbine Model 1860 Barrels
Makers 1) No production approvals
1) Spencer Repeating Arms, Inc.
2) L. Romano Rifle Co. (.56-50 only)

Spencer Carbine Model 1865 Barrels
1) ArmiSport (Taylor?s & Co., .56-50 only) 1) No production approvals

[noonanda]

it looks like it is listed to me. Not sure if you looked down the list far enough.

Spencer Carbine Model 1865 Barrels
1) ArmiSport (Taylor?s & Co., .56-50 only) 1) No production approvals



That entry is for a 1865 Carbine not the 1865 rifle variant which is what Im trying to find out about

[noonanda]

No, sorry:

Don't shovel. Gray beards are too important. Lost friends shoveling.
And the info is searchable here. At least three threads/posts w J's input.

Smiles.
Kevin

Just searched and there isnt anything about the 1865 rifle. I am more than willing to submit my rifle to the SAC for review. I Just won it on an auction, its listed as like new but until I get it in my hands I wont know for sure

[Eggman]

So it sure looks like a big hole in the approvals where the "rifle" should be listed. So there is definitely a viable possibility that the Spencer rifle of 1865 ilk still needs approval.
As a subsidiary issue, the initial inquiry could easily been addressed with --- wait for it --- "No."
Why make folks scour the archives for simple answers right at the tip of the tongues of the walking encyclopedias that eyeball this site.

[Kevin Tinny]

Ok, I just searched "John Holland Spencer Rifle Approval".
Three threads. Last by Hoot.
In Hoot's, John Holland gives full details on why the Armisport Spencer Rifle does not meet SAC Production Approval.
As I PM'd Darrell earlier, Hoot modified his to correct the issues and received Individual Approval. I really hope John's ok.
Respectfully,
Kevin Tinny

[FirinFlatTop]

All the approved arms list will list are guns summitted for production approval.

You can get your newly won Spencer Rifle approved without summiting it for Production Approval.

There are to many arms to list that have passed the Small Arms Approval, to receive a SAC card. Said arm does not need to be Production Approved.

Production Approved just tells you it does not need an individual approval card.

[Eggman]

These are gems. Thanks guys.

[FirinFlatTop]

Why make folks scour the archives for simple answers right at the tip of the tongues of the walking encyclopedias that eyeball this site.

It makes for learning more about the sport we do, I feel most have never read the rules, and never will. I don't mine a good search.

Also I read the OP question multiple times and still missed rifle, not carbine.

[Eggman]

Yup, strolling through the archives can bring a lot of pleasure. Making people use the archives -- not so much fun.

[noonanda]

Yup, strolling through the archives can bring a lot of pleasure. Making people use the archives -- not so much fun.

I did do a search, but unless you search for specific things you may not get the result. I had done searches for spencer rifle and spencer 1865 and went through the numerous posts with no joy. 7 pages on the Spencer 1865

[FirinFlatTop]

If you didn't find it? Here you may find the answers your looking for.

Armisport Spencer Rifle (n-ssa.net) (https://www.n-ssa.net/vbforum/showthread.php/299-Armisport-Spencer-Rifle?highlight=John+Holland+Spencer+Rifle+Approva l)

[noonanda]

It makes for learning more about the sport we do, I feel most have never read the rules, and never will. I don't mine a good search.

Also I read the OP question multiple times and still missed rifle, not carbine.

I obviously read the rules as my first post mentioned how I had looked in the SAC handbook for that very reason. Thanks for the link, I guess my search was too vague. I had read this one but it seemed alot was about Carbines.

[John Holland]

OK, after too many consecutive days of too much snow.....I'm back!

The ArmiSport Chiappa Spencer Rifle is a sad story. After they discovered that even the reenacting community wouldn't buy their Rifle with a Carbine receiver, they updated it to the configuration you see today.Unfortunately, the dimensions are too far out of our liberal +/- Allowable Tolerances to be given a N-SSA Production Approval status. I went to great lengths to work with the importer, who is Taylor's & Co., to get them to understand what had to be corrected in order to make the Rifle correct and approvable for use in the N-SSA. I made an appointment to meet with Taylor's personally. At that time I gave them a complete write-up, and even showed them an original Spencer Rifle. I had them compare it to an ArmiSport example so they could visually see the differences I had written about. To say they were barely interested would describe how they received my efforts. ArmiSport was flat out not interested in correcting anything because they said they had no problem selling them to the much larger re-enacting market.

Now you know why the ArmiSport Spencer Rifle is not, and never will be, on the N-SSA's Approved arms List.

John Holland
N-SSA Small Arms Staff Officer
Small Arms Committee Chairman

[noonanda]

OK, after too many consecutive days of too much snow.....I'm back!

The ArmiSport Chiappa Spencer Rifle is a sad story. After they discovered that even the reenacting community wouldn't buy their Rifle with a Carbine receiver, they updated it to the configuration you see today.Unfortunately, the dimensions are too far out of our liberal +/- Allowable Tolerances to be given a N-SSA Production Approval status. I went to great lengths to work with the importer, who is Taylor's & Co., to get them to understand what had to be corrected in order to make the Rifle correct and approvable for use in the N-SSA. I made an appointment to meet with Taylor's personally. At that time I gave them a complete write-up, and even showed them an original Spencer Rifle. I had them compare it to an ArmiSport example so they could visually see the differences I had written about. To say they were barely interested would describe how they received my efforts. ArmiSport was flat out not interested in correcting anything because they said they had no problem selling them to the much larger re-enacting market.

Now you know why the ArmiSport Spencer Rifle is not, and never will be, on the N-SSA's Approved arms List.

John Holland
N-SSA Small Arms Staff Officer
Small Arms Committee Chairman

Thanks John, might contact hoot about what he actually did to convert it to an acceptable, or I might Hold on to it for a while

[Eggman]

Yeah Hoot has his Spencer so ginned up he stands on the line and shoots it repeater mode right alongside the Henry guys. Gives me the heebie-jeebies. I still shoot individuals only. None of my remarkable cartridge loads will feed out of the magazine without some WWF level wrestling. But it's a really accurate bugger.

[Kevin Tinny]

Glad to hear you are ok, John:
Thanks for the Armisport/Chiappa/Taylor's Spencer rifle information.
Please stay safe.
Kevin Tinny