No-No Conversion of Rifled Smoothbore

[Michael Bodner]

Someone remind me: What is the specific model of the Rifled earlier-than-1842 gun that has a rear sight that CANNOT be converted back to smoothbore?

Thx

-Boots

[Maillemaker]

I'm not sure if this is the one you are thinking of, but you can't take NJ rifled H&P guns and convert them to smoothbores.

Steve

[Harry Gaul]

During this down time it might be a good time to kick this topic around and see what happens. I have a H and P, New Jersey type 1, rifled musket that started out smoothbore and then rifled and then someone bored out the barrel to make it a smoothbore except for maybe six inches near the breech that retains a faint markings of lands and grooves. Granted the barrel maybe so thin that the barrel maybe unsafe for the rigors of shooting in competition unless relined as a rifled barrel. What if I removed the barrel and dropped in a repro barrel by Robert Hoyt in the smoothbore H and P configuration and added a proper rear sight and a shark fin front barrel band and got the firearm inspected by SAC as to being a smoothbore, would that be legal to shoot in smoothbore competition? What if I removed the original unsafe barrel and dropped in a Hoyt cone-in-the-barrel smoothbore barrel and approved by SAC to be a smoothbore with original or repro front barrel band, would that be legal to shoot in smoothbore competition?

My goal is to get this closet Queen back in action and get the money flowing again to the barrel makers during this time of Covid 19. The virus is not going to last forever, but the 2020 season maybe a wash out.

What say you SAC? YES or NO or Yes if I did this in addition to the above mentioned plan.

True Blue and Diamond Hard,
Harry
03626v

[Maillemaker]

This is just me talking, but I think the intent of the N-SSA rules was to prevent the destruction of historical arms.

If you put a correct federal contract H&P style smoothbore barrel on a New Jersey contract H&P rifled gun, and replaced the hammer with an M1842 hammer (assuming yours has the Remington Hi-Spur), then in my opinion, there would be no destruction of anything, and moreover, there would be no real way to know that the gun was not originally a federal contract H&P (with a replacement barrel, obviously). I don't think there are any markings on the lock or stock that indicate a NJ gun. I could be wrong on that.

The trick will be matching the shape of the bottom of the bolster to the pan recess on your NJ lock. They seem to me to be the same basic shape, but I can't be sure from the photos in Altemus. Clearly there were a variety of different bolster shapes. Whether they all have the same belly shape I can't tell.

The trick, of course, would be getting a H&P smoothbore barrel/breech to drop in in the first place.

My reproduction H&P project has gone dormant while I fiddle with other things, but I hope to get back to it. I've got waxes ready to go for the next round of slightly bigger breeches. I should have sent them over the winter when there was no risk of them melting in the mail.

Steve

[John Holland]

Rule 19.8.4

BURDEN OF PROOF, NON-STANDARD ARMS (INDIVIDUAL APPROVAL)


a. A competitor wishing to use an original firearm or reproduction of an original firearm part that does not appear to fit into any of the types or models of firearms known to have existed during the Civil War, or any arm on which the Small Arms Committee has no information, must submit documentation to the Small Arms Committee.
b. That documentation must include photocopies of original Civil War-era documents or books or recognized secondary source material, such as books or articles that directly validate the exact design or configuration of the arm or component submitted.
c. The documentation must also prove the production quantity of the arm submitted. The purpose of the documentation is to satisfy the committee that such firearms would qualify under rule 19.1.
d. The burden of proof is on the submitting party.

John Holland
Small Arms Staff Officer

[Harry Gaul]

I was hoping for a Yes, No, or Yes with provisions. Since that did not happen, the closet Queen remains in the closet. I do not wish to make a substantial investment only to be rejected without clear directions. The basic idea was to drop in a repro H and P barrel , add the appropriate hammer and shark fin front band and compete. Again, I am not destroying anything original, but a modest attempt to bring a firearm back into action. Thanks in advance.

Harry
3rd US
03626v