Can you use fiber wads in carbine ammunition?

[Maillemaker]

Can you use fiber wads as filler in carbine or other cartridge-based long arm ammunition in N-SSA competition?

I'm going to experiment with using fiber wads between the powder wad and the bullet in my Sharps.

Steve

[JW 5875V]

Can you use fiber wads as filler in carbine or other cartridge-based long arm ammunition in N-SSA competition?

I'm going to experiment with using fiber wads between the powder wad and the bullet in my Sharps.

Steve
Well I have been using cream of wheat filler in my Maynard, and a "Wad" in my
wife's Gallagher.

Revolver using cream of wheat filler.


Rules may be different for for Sharps???????????

Jim Whitehouse Sr. 5875V
Allegheny City Guards

[Rob FreemanWBR]

Can you use fiber wads as filler in carbine or other cartridge-based long arm ammunition in N-SSA competition?

Steve


Brother Steve,

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Send me an email: rdfreeman1906@gmail.com and I'll be MORE than happy to fill your order!

[Rick R]

Steve,

Are you using Charlie's tubes or rolling your own? I roll mine because my .50 cal Shiloh likes the tubes so much it doesn't want to part with them and they remain in the chamber about 60% of the time.

If you roll your own you might want to try a tapered mandrel. My tubes fit a Brooks bullet base at the wide end and taper to about 5/32 at the other end. This reduces the volume sufficiently to bring the end of the tube about 1/16 in from the face of the breach while holding 43 gr of powder with no need for filler.

Rick

[Michael Bodner]

To answer your question: YES

22.1 AMMUNITION, GENERAL
a. Ammunition shall consist of a lead or lead alloy projectile and a pre‐measuredcharge of black powder.
b. Projectiles may be coated with a lubricant, and hollow bases may be filled withlubricant.
c. Carbine I and II, revolver, single‐shot pistol, and breechloading rifleammunition may include non‐explosive, non‐metallic filler, such as Cream ofWheat or wads.


-​Boots

[Maillemaker]

Brother Steve,

Here's your PERFECT opportunity to order a 2021 Mini-Compendium, replete with the current Skirmish Rules!

Hot off the press, I have one ready for you.

For the low cost of $18 you'll have at your finger-tips any-and-all skirmish related answers covered under the: Skirmish Rules, SAC Repo Arms, Board of Directors Policies, current N-SSA Bylaws, the Fort's Emergency Evac Plan, and the Building Code at the Fort!

Thanks Rob! I just keep a PDF of the rules on my phone. I was just lazy and didn't want to go digging for the info. :)


22.1 AMMUNITION, GENERAL
a. Ammunition shall consist of a lead or lead alloy projectile and a pre‐measuredcharge of black powder.
b. Projectiles may be coated with a lubricant, and hollow bases may be filled withlubricant.
c. Carbine I and II, revolver, single‐shot pistol, and breechloading rifleammunition may include non‐explosive, non‐metallic filler, such as Cream ofWheat or wads.


Thanks Michael! I was hoping someone would dig it out for me!


Are you using Charlie's tubes or rolling your own? I roll mine because my .50 cal Shiloh likes the tubes so much it doesn't want to part with them and they remain in the chamber about 60% of the time.

If you roll your own you might want to try a tapered mandrel. My tubes fit a Brooks bullet base at the wide end and taper to about 5/32 at the other end. This reduces the volume sufficiently to bring the end of the tube about 1/16 in from the face of the breach while holding 43 gr of powder with no need for filler.

I roll my own. I'm using the Eras Gone Richmond Sharps bullet, which has a very long heel close in diameter to the chamber. So there isn't much room for a cardboard tube wall. Basically .007-.009" of wall thickness is all you get. I love the bullet because with the long heel the bullets stay in the cartridge and don't fall out/off.

Originally I was making my tubes out of simple rectangles of paper glued and rolled around a mandrel.

But I recently adopted the Ordnance Manual pattern for the Sharps cartridge, shortened in length to 1.5" long to match my Pedersoli 1859 chamber length. I also started using plain computer paper. Did a load workup last weekend, and it works very, very well. I used to use 17 pound vellum, which fractured and exited the chamber fully. But it turns out that these spiral-wrapped tubes almost never leave any remnants behind, and when they do, it's a small bit of charred husk that crumbles to nothing if you touch it. I really like these spiral-wound Ordnance Manual tubes as they make a very strong cartridge. When you shove them in the chamber they don't collapse or crumple like my first cartridges did.

One thing I hope to gain from the internal wad is it will make the cartridge that much more rigid and durable. If it doesn't help accuracy I won't bother though.

Steve

[P.Altland]

To answer your question: YES

22.1 AMMUNITION, GENERAL
a. Ammunition shall consist of a lead or lead alloy projectile and a pre‐measuredcharge of black powder.
b. Projectiles may be coated with a lubricant, and hollow bases may be filled withlubricant.
c. Carbine I and II, revolver, single‐shot pistol, and breechloading rifleammunition may include non‐explosive, non‐metallic filler, such as Cream ofWheat or wads.


-​Boots

At face value, there must be a typo error with this rule. You cannot use wads in Smoothbore or any muzzleloading arms, of which, a single shot pistol is both.


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[Michael Bodner]

Paul,

You found a conflict in rules...

Rule 20.7.3-j says NO to wads over powder is smoothbore guns, including pistols..

BIG book!!

Boots

[Chris Sweeney]

Paul,

You found a conflict in rules...

Rule 20.7.3-j says NO to wads over powder is smoothbore guns, including pistols..

BIG book!!

Boots
Not a typo, error or conflict, it's an exception

[P.Altland]

Not a typo, error or conflict, it's an exception

There is no exception for the use of filler or wads in Single Shot pistol. Please clarify.


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[ChrisWBR]

There is no exception for the use of filler or wads in Single Shot pistol. Please clarify.


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The rule was no filler or wads with Single Shot Pistol. That is an error in the rules. There was debate on this and the decision was no filler and no wads. This can be clarified by the National IG.

[P.Altland]

The rule was no filler or wads with Single Shot Pistol. That is an error in the rules. There was debate on this and the decision was no filler and no wads. This can be clarified by the National IG.

So, exactly what I said. There is an error in Rule 22.1 (c)

Single Shot pistol should not be included with Carbine I & II, Revolver and Breechloading Rifle.


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[John Robey]

Mr Altland is correct. There is a error in Rule 22.1c.

In August 2017 a motion was made to include single-shot (smoothbore) pistols. That motion was defeated. Resoundingly.

When I updated the rule book the following winter I mistakenly entered the erroneous wording, and was not aware of it until this thread evolved to include the issue.

Until the next printing of the rule book in 2021 all are advised that the inclusion is in error, and the use of wads or filler is NOT PERMITTED, just as it is not in smoothbore muskets. All smoothbores=same rule.

John Robey
Rules Chairman (somewhat embarrassed)

[P.Altland]

Mr Altland is correct. There is a error in Rule 22.1c.

In August 2017 a motion was made to include single-shot (smoothbore) pistols. That motion was defeated. Resoundingly.

When I updated the rule book the following winter I mistakenly entered the erroneous wording, and was not aware of it until this thread evolved to include the issue.

Until the next printing of the rule book in 2021 all are advised that the inclusion is in error, and the use of wads or filler is NOT PERMITTED, just as it is not in smoothbore muskets. All smoothbores=same rule.

John Robey
Rules Chairman (somewhat embarrassed)

No need to be embarrassed. As Bootsie said ?It?s a BIG book?. Thanks for the explanation and clarification. Let?s just hope we actually get to shoot them this year.


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[Maillemaker]

Well, in other news, I ordered these:

https://www.ballisticproducts.com/Fiber-Cushion-Filler-Wad-1_2/productinfo/FC/

I was a bit confused, because when you look at the table near the bottom of the page, it says .36 cal, Bore Size .360", but Wad Size .530".

I wanted some .530" diameter wads to put in my Sharps cartridges. So, ordered them. Well, I now have 500 .360" diameter wads.

I called them up, and the guy on the phone could not tell me what Wad size is/means.

Might just order some durofelt and punch out my own.

Steve

[Kevin Tinny]

Hello, Steve:

Another source is "Circle Fly" wads. They are at least 40 years in business.

Regards,
Kevin Tinny

[John Robey]

The error in Rule 22.1c has been corrected on the website copy of the Skirmish Rules. If you have printed off a copy, or if you have bought one of Rob's mini skirmish rules, simply go to 22.1.c and draw a line through "single-shot pistol".

JR

[lmcmahon]

Online rules have been updated to correct error in section 22.1.C:

Carbine I and II, revolver, and breechloading rifle ammunition may include non-explosive, non-metallis filler, such as Cream of Wheat or wads.