Just bought a 1863 and have some questions.

[Nd1887]

So I bought a original 1863 Springfield and have some questions on live firing. Going to get the ok from a gun smith and, the rifling is very good and has no pitting in the bore. Best way to measure the bore for getting some mini balls to try, calipers? Only thing I have noticed about it so far if the 300yrd leaf like's to pop up easy. Also some light rust formed between the stock and the barrel best way to remove it?
Thanks just getting into this genre of rifles have done some research on it not a total dumb dumb.

[Lou Lou Lou]

Cut a piece of bicycle inner tube to make a big rubber band to hold down the sight. Machinist can measure bore with pin guages

[Muley Gil]

Welcome!

Remove the barrel from the stock and start by rubbing any rust with a oily rag. If there is heavy rust present, use a REAL coppy penny to scrap it away. Pin gauges are considered the best way measure the bore diameter. You want to shoot a pure lead Minie that is .001-.002" undersized.

[Nd1887]

Welcome!

Remove the barrel from the stock and start by rubbing any rust with a oily rag. If there is heavy rust present, use a REAL coppy penny to scrap it away. Pin gauges are considered the best way measure the bore diameter. You want to shoot a pure lead Minie that is .001-.002" undersized.
Best place to but minie's from? Atleast until I figure out what size my rifle likes best

[Muley Gil]

Go to this thread:

https://www.n-ssa.net/vbforum/showthread.php/19120-Starting-pointers-for-a-newbie-(Pedersoli-P53)

and scroll down to post # 6. Harry Gaul may be able to help you out. He may be able to help you determine the correct size also.

[William H. Shuey]

Hi Troops:

If anyone wants to acquire some pin gauges Travers Tool Co has them. They have a website. http://www.travers.com/

Bill Shuey

[Maillemaker]

Link to pin gauges:

https://www.travers.com/pin-gages/c/298902/

Steve

[MR. GADGET]

There are several Nut and Bolt shops that sell pin gauges in my area, also amazon has them.
Outside of that places like grainger or McMaster Carr have been great to deal with.

I carried in a musket and they let me use some pin gauges to see what range I needed for.the muskets, carbines and some modern M1 Garands.

Just made a list and they ordered the correct ranges for me.
When our shoots fire back up I will have them with me for people that want to check barrels.
BTW a 20 gauge plastic shotgun box works great for storage.

[Nd1887]

There are several Nut and Bolt shops that sell pin gauges in my area, also amazon has them.
Outside of that places like grainger or McMaster Carr have been great to deal with.

I carried in a musket and they let me use some pin gauges to see what range I needed for.the muskets, carbines and some modern M1 Garands.

Just made a list and they ordered the correct ranges for me.
When our shoots fire back up I will have them with me for people that want to check barrels.
BTW a 20 gauge plastic shotgun box works great for storage.
Looks like the 3$ guages go up by 5 thousandths and the ones that go by 1 thousandths cost 16$ each so if I need to try .577,.578 .579 .580 would cost more than 60$
Looks like there is some light pitting there also any good way to something into the pitting to remove the rust in it?

[Muley Gil]

Looks like the 3$ guages go up by 5 thousandths and the ones that go by 1 thousandths cost 16$ each so if I need to try .577,.578 .579 .580 would cost more than 60$
Looks like there is some light pitting there also any good way to something into the pitting to remove the rust in it?

I have taken a shotgun cleaning rod and chucked it in my portable drill. Using a 20 gauge brush, SLOWLY rotate the brush in the barrel, pushing in and out. I remove the barrel from the stock and secure it in my bench vise. Occasionally remove the barrel from the vise and tap it muzzle down to remove the rust and lead. Clean and oil the barrel.

[Nd1887]

Here?s some pictures of the rust I?m talking about, it doesn?t look like rust unless you really get some good light on it, otherwise it just looks like old pitting.

[MR. GADGET]

Looks like the 3$ guages go up by 5 thousandths and the ones that go by 1 thousandths cost 16$ each so if I need to try .577,.578 .579 .580 would cost more than 60$
Looks like there is some light pitting there also any good way to something into the pitting to remove the rust in it?

Would need to look at mine. Not sure it was.60.for.that set but I hage spent some money as I also.did 30.cal.50 cal.54.cal.58 cal and 69..
You get out what you put in. I also did.in the range of dies and also.sizers.
I dont see a reason to buy a .5755 and so on.
What I did was get .575 plus and minus 576 plus and minus up to 580 if I recall.
So about 10 to 14 pin gauges for say 58 cal. They were 2.40 to 3$ each so about 40$. If you take care of them they will.last a lifetime. Most the time I pull them out I get a few free beers or few $$ for helping but never ask.

[MR. GADGET]

BTW for rust or the likes. Plug the nipple and fill with balistol or use Kroil on a patch and keep it wet for several days.

[Nd1887]

BTW for rust or the likes. Plug the nipple and fill with balistol or use Kroil on a patch and keep it wet for several days.
The bore is actually spotless on this rifle, just trying to get the outer rust to go away.

[MR. GADGET]

The bore is actually spotless on this rifle, just trying to get the outer rust to go away.

Super fine SS steel wool 5/0 or 6/0 and lots of oil and little to no pressure.
That is the best way to knock off the rust, blend it in and make it look better.

[Maillemaker]

For a typical 58 caliber gun you would probably be served fine with pin gauges in:

.575 - https://www.travers.com/class-zz-pin-gage/p/58-205-750/
.576 - https://www.travers.com/class-zz-pin-gage/p/58-205-760/
.577 - https://www.travers.com/class-zz-pin-gage/p/58-205-770/
.578 - https://www.travers.com/class-zz-pin-gage/p/58-205-780/
.579 - https://www.travers.com/class-zz-pin-gage/p/58-205-790/
.580 - https://www.travers.com/class-zz-pin-gage/p/58-205-800/
.581 - https://www.travers.com/class-zz-pin-gage/p/58-205-810/
.582 - https://www.travers.com/class-zz-pin-gage/p/58-205-820/
.583 - https://www.travers.com/class-zz-pin-gage/p/58-205-830/
.584 - https://www.travers.com/class-zz-pin-gage/p/58-205-840/

Here is a link to all of them (https://www.travers.com/class-zz-individual-pin-gages/p/118248/?lite=true&pricelistname=SITE#pricelistname=SITE&size=.575%22,.576%22,.577%22,.578%22,.579%22,.580% 22,.581%22,.582%22,.583%22,.584%22&series=Minus), as minus gauges. A minus gauge will fit into the hole the gauge is marked. A plus will not.

They are $3.65 each and all of the above come to $36.50, plus shipping.

Steve

[Nd1887]

For a typical 58 caliber gun you would probably be served fine with pin gauges in:

.575 - https://www.travers.com/class-zz-pin-gage/p/58-205-750/
.576 - https://www.travers.com/class-zz-pin-gage/p/58-205-760/
.577 - https://www.travers.com/class-zz-pin-gage/p/58-205-770/
.578 - https://www.travers.com/class-zz-pin-gage/p/58-205-780/
.579 - https://www.travers.com/class-zz-pin-gage/p/58-205-790/
.580 - https://www.travers.com/class-zz-pin-gage/p/58-205-800/

Here is a link to all of them (https://www.travers.com/class-zz-individual-pin-gages/p/118248/?lite=true&pricelistname=SITE#pricelistname=SITE&size=.575%22,.576%22,.577%22,.578%22,.579%22,.580% 22&series=Minus), as minus gauges. A minus gauge will fit into the hole the gauge is marked. A plus will not.

They are $3.65 each and all of the above come to $21.90, plus shipping. I just ordered a set and shipping was about $15.

Steve
Dang guys! that is perfect and thanks for all the responses,Got the steel wool out seems to work good on the little bit of heavy rust but does nothing on the rust in the pitting.
Who makes the best caps, Caps will be important for me as I am left handed and dont want crappy ones that will blow the wings off.
Best place to buy black powder online? looked in town but nobody carries the actual black powder.

[MR. GADGET]

Yep what he said is spot on. Those gauges are about all you need. I picked the plus and minus just to have a closer range.

But from what I remember,.check McMaster Carr, everytime I used them they would beat everyones shipping,.base price and have it in two days.

Not saying they are now, not going to check and link them all on my phone.
Hard enought to type this.

[MR. GADGET]

Dang guys! that is perfect and thanks for all the responses,Got the steel wool out seems to work good on the little bit of heavy rust but does nothing on the rust in the pitting.
Who makes the best caps, Caps will be important for me as I am left handed and dont want crappy ones that will blow the wings off.
Best place to buy black powder online? looked in town but nobody carries the actual black powder.

Make sure it is SS. If not it will just rust more and spread the rust.

Really Fargo? Really?

I grew up in Jamestown, back in the 70's.

[MR. GADGET]

Wonder what USPS would do if I sent you a flat rate ship anything anywhere box?

Some powder, primers, and test bullets.......

I know, I know......

But I will not add a return address....... they will not know it is me...

[Hal]

You were probably put on an NSA watch list before you got done typing.

[Nd1887]

Ordered the pin gauges.

[Maillemaker]

In my opinion, the best caps are German RWS Dynamite Nobel. It is all I use in competition.

CCI got sued some years ago and weakened their caps. They used to label them "For Reenactor Use" but then started slapping a label on top of the old label that said "Multipurpose use" or something like that.

The CCI caps are weak and while they will work OK in guns with straight-in fire channels like an Enfield, they do not reliably work in guns with 90-degree fire channels like the Richmond Carbine.

The Scheutzen caps are decent but I've had problems with them going off on the first hammer strike consistently with some guns. I think this is because they are made of steel rather than brass and so they don't deform onto the nipple during a strike as easily as the brass ones do. So I think the Schuetzen caps are more picky about a good nipple fit than brass ones.

Cheapest place to order caps online is probably Back Creek Gun Shop (https://blackpowderva.com/). Cheapest place online to buy powder is probably Powder Inc. (https://powderinc.com/)

https://blackpowderva.com/
https://powderinc.com/

Steve

[Nd1887]

So the rifle looks nice until you shine a light into the light pitting and it looks like rust is still there should I be worried or is that normal?

[Rob FreemanWBR]

ND1887 - QUESTION for you:

Apologies if I didn't read it in earlier threads - but do you know how to PROPERLY remove the barrel from the stock, so as not to bugger up (and devalue) a piece? There are different ways to remove these sorts of barrels, but there's only ONE way to do it correctly.


Curious to know either way - thx!

Likewise - CONGRATS on acquiring a very nice piece of history!!

[Nd1887]

ND1887 - QUESTION for you:

Apologies if I didn't read it in earlier threads - but do you know how to PROPERLY remove the barrel from the stock, so as not to bugger up (and devalue) a piece? There are different ways to remove these sorts of barrels, but there's only ONE way to do it correctly.


Curious to know either way - thx!

Likewise - CONGRATS on acquiring a very nice piece of history!!
I haven't taken the barrel off yet, but im assuming in involves getting the correct size screw drivers to not bugger up the screws. I think you just take off the tang screw and 3 barrel bands.

[Rob FreemanWBR]

ND1887,

IRT my earlier question re barrel removal from muzzle stuffers...

Yes - having the correct sized screw driver(s) for disassembly is a must, and yes - you have to remove the associate barrel bands and tang screw.

But first - cock the hammer to the safe position & remove the lock. Loosen both lock screws partially. IF needed, a GENTLE tap(s) on both lock screw heads (with your screw driver handle) may be in order to help loosen the lock/start it's exit from the stock itself. DON'T force anything. Once the lock is clearly loose & lock screws removed, the lock itself should pull STRAIGHT out from the stock without resistance.

With the lock removed, remove the ram rod, associated barrel bands, and the tang screw.

Now comes the critical part.

With a table or bench (waist high), put a balled up towel/rag on top of it. What you want to do is to hold the piece where the barrel is facing/horizontal to the deck, with your hand(s) holding the barrel in the stock. With the rifle inverted as so, you want to strike/tap the top of the rifle but on the balled up towel so that the barrel will simply drop STRAIGHT out of the stock's barrel channel. Note - don't grip the length of piece so tightly that the barrel won't fall out. You do want a "controlled drop", of the barrel, falling out of the stock's barrel channel as a result of the kinetics from bumping/striking the balled up towel. So, simultaneously strike the flat surface/balled up towel and be positioned/ready to capture (grab) the now freed barrel without dropping everything (barrel & stock) onto the floor. Before undertaking this step, you may want to play this out in your head before doing it for real.

The key is to let GRAVITY do ALL the work in this particular step of "field stripping" your piece. It may seem like a no brainier to just grasp the muzzle in one hand and the stock end cap in the other and and treat your rifle like a Thanksgiving Wish Bone. But doing this isn't a good thing to do, esp. if you want your stock to remain intact/crack free...


So, after you've safely removed your barrel, all that's left is to remove the cone (nipple). After that, you can turn to in squaring away your weapon!

Hopefully in "gilding the lilly" in this post, I didn't make things as clear as mud. My apologies up front if I've caused confusion. Pls don't hesitate to ask for clarification/elaboration if needed!

[Nd1887]

Got the pin gauges today, put the .580 and it goes in stiff, I dont have a .581 but I would say .580 is the largest that would fit maybe a .581 .580 fits real tight. So would you guys recommend ordering a .581 just to check?
What size minies should I run? I see track of the wolf has some .580 minies

[MR. GADGET]

Got the pin gauges today, put the .580 and it goes in stiff, I dont have a .581 but I would say .580 is the largest that would fit maybe a .581 .580 fits real tight. So would you guys recommend ordering a .581 just to check?
What size minies should I run? I see track of the wolf has some .580 minies

If it is tight on a 580 you should be good to go.

Trick, get a pc of brass rod like 1/2" and 6 to 10" long. They make brass and copper grounding rods at hardware stores or metal shops will get you soft brass. Saves damage on barrel.
Always add it first to a barrel when using pin sets. If you drop one in it could be the only way to hammer it out. Also remember what you checked was the end of the barrel.
The center may be tighter due to all the loading and cleaning.

I would start with a 577 or 578 first. They will shoot but see what it does. 579 may not load good after 5 or 6 rounds. Just depends on the number of rounds you want to shoot before you brush or clean.

[Maillemaker]

I typically size to what fits the bore. So my Pedersoli P58 will accept the .578 pin, and I size my bullets to .578. .579 does not fit.

I have no problems with loading during competition with 9-12 shots per course of fire.

Even my Whitacre P53 barrel, which takes .576 bullets (.577 will not fit), using the Moose 577-420 Wilkinson, with it's tiny lube groove, will shoot easily 9-12 shots or more without cleaning.

But you might get away with a more under-sized bullet, especially if it expands well.

Steve

[Nd1887]

I think what I will do is buy the .580 Minnie and buy a sizing die of about .578 or .577 and try that. Who makes a good sizing die you can buy in the united states, id like a pedersoli one but cant find any in the united states.

[Muley Gil]

I use the push through sizers. Post a "Want to Buy" in the Classifieds for the sizes you want.

[Maillemaker]

If you need to buy new, Lee will make custom sizing dies that install in any standard reloading press. I like them. Also, you can buy sizing dies for the Lyman Lubrisizer from places like S&S firearms. I like them also. I'm not a fan of the ones made by North East Trading Company. It's possible I bought one of the ones that were supposedly part of a badly-made batch, but the .515 die I just bought through Lodgewood has a very abrupt shoulder as it transitions from free bore to sizing bore, and does not size the bullet well (pure lead .518 down to .515) as it horribly deforms the base of the bullet.

You can see pictures here:
https://www.n-ssa.net/vbforum/showthread.php/19137-Is-this-normal-when-sizing-a-Smith-bullet?highlight=smith

Steve

[Nd1887]

If you need to buy new, Lee will make custom sizing dies that install in any standard reloading press. I like them. Also, you can buy sizing dies for the Lyman Lubrisizer from places like S&S firearms. I like them also. I'm not a fan of the ones made by North East Trading Company. It's possible I bought one of the ones that were supposedly part of a badly-made batch, but the .515 die I just bought through Lodgewood has a very abrupt shoulder as it transitions from free bore to sizing bore, and does not size the bullet well (pure lead .518 down to .515) as it horribly deforms the base of the bullet.

You can see pictures here:
https://www.n-ssa.net/vbforum/showthread.php/19137-Is-this-normal-when-sizing-a-Smith-bullet?highlight=smith

Steve

that?s to bad I was hoping theirs would work I really don?t want to pay 250$ for the Lyman and don?t want to wait 8 weeks for the Lee sizer. Might try the lodge wood one.

[MR. GADGET]

Tom Crone should have all the sizers in stock and able to ship.

Tom Crone. 301-473-5699

So far he is the only one that I have seen are 100% true. I have many.
They workk but not the quality he has. Also was selling bullets so may be able to help you there also.
He has built a lot of custom gear for me. Also great to deal with. Plus a N-SSA guy abd sets up at shoots.

[Nd1887]

Tom Crone should have all the sizers in stock and able to ship.

Tom Crone. 301-473-5699

So far he is the only one that I have seen are 100% true. I have many.
They workk but not the quality he has. Also was selling bullets so may be able to help you there also.
He has built a lot of custom gear for me. Also great to deal with. Plus a N-SSA guy abd sets up at shoots.

Ill give him a call then Thanks for all your help.

[Nd1887]

One last question, What powder should I try first FFg or FFFg and starting loads for both?

[Maillemaker]

I shoot 3F in everything. Typically you can use about 10% less 3F than a given load of 2F and get similar ballistic performance. Since 2F and 3F cost the same - you save 10% shooting 3F.

But, some guns like 2F.

A common target load for .58 muskets is around 45 grains 3F with an RCBS-Hodgdon bullet. There are many others.

[Nd1887]

Gave tom crone a call ordered a Sizer, real nice guy sounds like he is in lock-down for the next couple weeks.

[Nd1887]

So basically I have gone everywhere in my town and all I can find if Pyrodex is that safe to use or should I bite the bullet and pay 20$ for the hazard fee online?

[John Holland]

Yes, Pyrodex is safe to use.

[Maillemaker]

Pyrodex works fine. Not legal for N-SSA competition though, if that matters to you.

I find Pyrodex fouling residue is more corrosive than standard BP so clean immediately after shooting.

I believe Pyrodex has a higher ignition temperature than real BP so it may be marginally more prone to failures to fire, though I never had a problem in a caplock with it.

Steve

[Dan Mastin]

send me a pm with your email address. i might be able to put in touch with a guy in Aberdeen, SD who would be a good resource for you.

dan mastin

[Nd1887]

Well I took her for a shoot after the powder and caps I bought came in and she shot pretty well, I didn't try any accuracy testing as of yet still waiting for the sizer and I think I will order some bullets from him also. Think I might starting shooting it once a week or so if I can get some decent bullets. Going to apply for a muzzle loader tag this year.