Civil War Bullet Manufacturing Process

[WBowen70]

So while in our current worldly situation I have been in my garage molding more rounds. While doing so I have been wondering how were bullets produced during the war between the States? I can't imagine you had a bunch of folks standing around molten lead and pouring it one round at a time as most of us do. I did a quick google search but most of the stuff I found most results revolving around current molds and our hobby. I did find one article about how bullets were made in a swaging machine of some sort.

I figure with all the gurus we have in the N-SSA someone could educate me on the production of rounds in the 1800's

[geezmo]

Scroll back 2 days ago to a post by StonewallSharpsperson. He has an interesting post on this topic. He also has a link there to information from ordnance manuals from the 1840's to 60's.

[geezmo]

Correction, it's StonewallSharpeson. If you can't find him, enter in the search box the following: US Army Infantry Ammunition, 1841 - 1862

[H.Liniger]

During the war there was a Confederate States Laboratory located on Brown's Island in the James River in Richmond. They produced ammunition,primers, percussion caps and other ordnance. It blew up during the war killing many young girls who worked there. HL

[Maillemaker]

A fantastic resource is Round Ball to Rimfire by Dean S. Thomas. It is a 4-volume set.

Many, if not most, bullets produced by modern governments were made by swaging lead under pressure. There were machines that extruded hot lead into wire, and this wire was wound onto spools. Then there were machines, like the Naylor bullet machine, that fed in the wire, cut off the appropriate amount, stuffed it into a die, and then a piston rammed it into a compound die to take shape, cannalures and all.

I'd love to see this technology reborn. There are companies, like Corbin, that sell bullet swaging equipment, but nobody, to my knowledge, makes a compound die that can open to release a bullet with cannalures.

Steve

[Maillemaker]

You may like these things:

http://4thla.weebly.com/paper-cartidge-patterns-and-information.html

Steve

[mgmradio]

They were made both by poring in a gang mould and by swagging . Some were also made by swagging and then turned on a lathe to cut the cannuleres.

[hobbler]

Relic (recovered) bullets show many swaged and many cast.

[WBowen70]

Good info, figured y'all would come through. Would love to see what one of these machines looked like.

[WBowen70]

WOW just read one of the PDF's, "One man can make with the machine 80,000 balls in 10 hours" THAT WOULD BE AWESOME, spend one day and have enough rounds to last me the rest of my skirmishing career. HA :D

[Maillemaker]

There has got to be a way to make a compound multi-part die to work with a Corbin swager.

[nobade]

There has got to be a way to make a compound multi-part die to work with a Corbin swager.I see a business opportunity here...

[Occupied Maryland]

Go with swaging an Enfeild style bullet and the grease groove problem is solved.

[Maillemaker]

Go with swaging an Enfeild style bullet and the grease groove problem is solved.

True, but that bullet is currently useless in N-SSA competition.

Steve

[John Holland]

Actually, I have found a lot of them in the backstop at the range in Winchester. They are using standard oversize Pritchett type bullets with lube in the hollow base.

[nobade]

I have a NOE mould for those and they shoot incredibly well. And of course that would be the way to go with normal swaging dies. But where is the challenge in that?
BTW, I am not a N-SSA shooter since there's none of that here in NM but I do spend a lot of time playing with rifled muskets. Just wonderful why Pritchett bullets aren't allowed? They're certainly period correct, is the paper patching not allowed because of fires?

[jonk]

I have a NOE mould for those and they shoot incredibly well. And of course that would be the way to go with normal swaging dies. But where is the challenge in that?
BTW, I am not a N-SSA shooter since there's none of that here in NM but I do spend a lot of time playing with rifled muskets. Just wonderful why Pritchett bullets aren't allowed? They're certainly period correct, is the paper patching not allowed because of fires?
Partly. We do permit combustible paper rounds for sharps and revolvers so that isn't the whole rationale; I think part of it too is the fast loading we do with rifled muskets and not wanting bits of burning paper potentially left in the bore. It is a recipe for cook offs when the next round is poured down as we don't have time to swab between shots. The bullet STYLE is fine and as John Holland said I have found them in the backstop, and if someone wants to shoot an Enfield style bullet without the paper, well that's certainly fine.

As for making a die that makes a minie via swaging including the grease grooves, I am sure the technical aspects of it could be overcome; but whether it fit the Corbin machine or required a hydraulic press, it would be an added piece of gear that most skirmishers don't have, and most would never need; and as so many are shooting different types of bullets there would be a discussion of bullet style and diameter to address too. While not practical for any given shooter, if one of the larger teams had one and they all shot the same bullet that would be another matter. I know that for a thousand or 2 bullets a year I wouldn't want to spend thousands on the set up. Besides, the lead wire is still going to cost money, will have to be of a specific diameter, and you will need to have either a cutter that precisely cuts THAT or have a way to address run out on the finished bullet. Certainly an option would be a basic mold that cast slab sided barrel shaped slugs just the right size for the swage die, but if you are already melting lead and casting it....

In short, it was a useful invention for making millions of the same type of bullet for the army but not so useful for our sport, sadly.

This said if someone makes the die I wanna see it!

[Maillemaker]

Just wonderful why Pritchett bullets aren't allowed? They're certainly period correct, is the paper patching not allowed because of fires?

As John pointed out, you can shoot them "naked" just fine in the N-SSA. It's not a period-correct way to use the bullet, but if it works, it works.

The N-SSA does not allow any paper down the barrel in any muzzleloading arm. The fear is probably that residual embers could cause a cookoff. I don't think fires are a concern because paper cartridges are allowed in breechloading arms (and they have caused fires - I saw it on the field at Eva, though nothing that could not be stomped out in short order. At least, I assume it was paper that caused the ground fire).

I personally think this is an ungrounded fear. The British developed the paper-patched Enfield cartridge to the zenith of the muzzleloading era. If cookoffs were an issue, they would have noted it. During testing there was an Enfield musket at one of the testing facilities that was deliberately not cleaned for years, and had countless rounds put through it. No mention of cookoffs.

I'm currently casting up from time to time to get to 500 Pritchet style bullets that I intend to make up in to Enfield style cartridges. I want to do my own "torture test" of rapid firing dozens of them without cleaning to demonstrate that there is no risk of cookoff.

Steve

[MR. GADGET]

I see a business opportunity here...

Very surprised that no one has set up to mass production of the bullets we make and shoot.

After it is set up only new costs is in lead and a way to heat lead.
For the price of what they cost now it is hard to not justify buying the pots, molds, dies and so one.

I know there was a time when only big companies sell fishing weights. They cast virgin lead, shipped everything several times before it hit the end user. You would pay 6 to 7$ per pound.

Now on the fishing side of things there are many new businesses fired up selling weights for the same or lest than most pay for lead.

They work with places to buy scrap,.some new, anyway to get it then cast away.
not long back they were able to cast and sell fishing weights for 1$ a pound or less.
Now a little more but not much.

One would think even if you were only doing 69 cal or other round balls they sould be able to sell for 1 ro 1.25$ a pound anything under the 1.50$ or more people are paying for lead.

If I was retired I know I would be casting round balls and selling them. They are cheap, easy to make and you can use mixed lead. Dead soft is not needed.

[nobade]

Thanks for the replies! I thought the fire danger might be the reason.

[hobbler]

Yesterday sent off one of the more recent Lyman 575213NS set of blocks to have the grooves removed. The mold is one of the newer ones manufactured with the smaller diameter channel for the base plug and someone had recut the channel size so that fit neither the new or old diameter plugs.
http://i.imgur.com/BpqlB3m.jpg (https://imgur.com/BpqlB3m)
The idea is to recut the channel to fit the older plugs (from the various Ideal / Lyman minies), taking the cut right on up to meet the ogive and eliminate the lube grooves. Then swaging down the castings to whatever diameter a given rifle might need.
I would need to start large and swage down to avoid having a mold that was too small. And this way the blocks can be used with which ever cavity design of the various Lyman molds works best. With the modified "NS" blocks should be able to approximate the various designs of recovered relic smooth sided bullets. That's something I'd been wanting to do, to cobble up ammo such as was actually used and this was too good of an opportunity to pass up.

[Kevin Tinny]

Hello, all:

Skirmishers helped me when I began working on accuracy with minie's and base plugs.

They shared that large hollow bases combine form and spin stabilization factors.
The shape of the plug relates to the thickness of the skirt AND its volume changes the minie's dynamic center of gravity and mass.

A respected tester, the late Tony Bagdon, spent a lot of time with base plug shapes.
The slightest profile changes produced unpredictable accuracy differences. Trial and error.
John Dewald at North East Trade Co in Muncy, PA made many 54/58 plugs for Tony.

I have worked through half a dozen plugs and it's like chasing what's left of my tail.

All the best,
Kevin Tinny

[hobbler]

As noted in the 1850's*, for lubed (not smooth) minies, the lube grooves also can supply stabilizing effects.

*https://books.google.com/books/about/Reports_of_experiments_with_small_arms_f.html?id=Y XkDAAAAYAAJ

[hobbler]

Just something else working with, an adjustable .58 caliber to fit the various older Ideal / Lyman blocks with the full diameter base plugs.
My Armisport interpretation of the P53 was produced with a 48" twist. Might use some of them in the P-H musketoon.
http://i.imgur.com/p2Vq0zN.jpg (https://imgur.com/p2Vq0zN)

[Dheisey#7003]

Many years ago, someone had made an "automatic" minie ball casting device. It combined a bottom drop lead pot, a rapine minie mold, an electric motor and a bunch of gears and cams. I only ever saw it once at sutlers. It was interesting. I believe you loaded lead into the pot, and once the lead was hot, you turned on the motor and the mold moved under the pot, lead dropped into the mold and then it went to a "drop" area where a cam actuated the mold to drop the minie out. The cam closed the mold and went through the process over again... It was pretty interesting. From what I gathered, it had to be a hollow base mold that had the base secured to the mold. At that time Rapine molds were the only ones that did that.
When I say years ago, we are talking 20+ years ago when the sutler buildings were cobbled together like carnival stands with sawmill slats on the outside. I wish I had a photo of the thing, it was definitely a Rube Goldberg device.

[Maillemaker]

Master Caster makes such devices.

http://www.magmaengineering.com/master-caster/

Not sure if it does hollow-base bullets though.

Steve

[bobanderson]

I have a Master Caster. Great machine, will throw 500 bullets an hour using 2 cavity mould blocks.

There could be some issues with trying to use it for minies. In use, the blocks swing down and separate in an arc making it near impossible to use a mould where the core pin is attached to the bottom of the pair of blocks with a solid plate. A teammate on the 1st Michigan had his Master Caster set up to use a flexible steel plate (spring steel maybe?) to hold the core pin. He had it figured out where he could cast minies.

I use hard alloy for all of my breechloaders, so casting minies means cleaning out the pot to make the switch, or buying an extra pot (Not cheap!).
For that reason, my Master Caster is restricted to hard lead alloy, a.k.a. smoothbore balls, pistol caliber bullets and civil war breechloader projectiles. Two notable success stories were one, modifying my Elka round ball mould to throw smoothie balls. At 14 balls per pound, a 40 lb pot gave me over 400 balls before I gave up. That should keep my two smoothies running for this year for sure. My second project was to convert my Moose Moulds "Bobtail" Sharps bullet. The Master Caster uses "keys" that simulate the mould handles we all use so I made keys and got the Master Caster throwing about 250 Sharps bullets per hour. I guess I just don't enjoy the slow progress when you cast bullets from single cavity moulds.