A good gun for a small female shooter?

[Maillemaker]

My daughter has turned 14 and wants to shoot N-SSA.

She is very small though. Even with my 2-band P58 she does the "chick lean" and leans way backwards to try and balance the gun. She likes my Richmond Carbine a little better but even that one she leans way back with.

I'm thinking a small carbine would be good. We tried my Pedersoli Sharps 1859 but she has a hard time seeing the sights with it. I think the problem is when she gets a good cheek weld her head is so far down due to the comb drop that she can no longer see the front sight. Maybe if she moved her head forward on the stock but probably she can't due to the length of the butt.

What do you guys recommend for long arms for small shooters?

Also, she is left-eye dominant. Do they shoot left-handed?

Thanks,
Steve

[P.Altland]

My daughter is left handed and shoots my 2 band Colt. Started when she was 14.

There?s also the Richmond Razeed with Long Range rear sight


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[Hal]

Steve,

My 7 year old grandson is right handed and left eye dominant. He shoots his BB gun right handed. He just closes his left eye. When he first tried to shoot, he was not able to close just his left eye and I was afraid he would not be able to learn to shoot. We even considered the left hand shooting thing, but as he got a bit older, he learned to close his left eye and shoot right handed. He does pretty well like that. His biggest problem is that he is small for his age and most guns are either too heavy or too long for him to hold up. I found a youth model CO2 BB gun that is very light weight and has a short reach. He was tearing up drink cans with that one.

I let him try my Winchester '06 .22. I think he could probably hold it up, but the reach is too long.

Can you shoot a Musketoon in the Musket match? I don't know why not, but someone more familiar with the rules could answer that. If so, I would think a musketoon would get the center of gravity back closer to her body so the gun is not so hard to hold up and she could shoot the same gun in the carbine and musket match.

[Muley Gil]

See if you can locate a Springfield artillery rifle for her to try. These are generally three band rifle muskets that were cut down to a 32"-33" barrel post war. Many were used by the various military schools that popped up after the war.

[Maillemaker]

See if you can locate a Springfield artillery rifle for her to try

I think this is the 2-band Cold that Paul is talking about above.

Steve

[Steve Weems]

The Model 1863 made for Mass by S.N. & W.T.C. has many shortened to 31inches . Makes for a light and handy rifle for smaller people. I believe it may be shortest approved for musket competition rifle out there.
I had one and regret getting rid of it.

[P.Altland]

I think this is the 2-band Cold that Paul is talking about above.

Steve

Steve,

Not exactly. The Colt Special model is not like the Springfield or the Razeed in that, although grandfathered for use in N-SSA (ie. Chattahooche), they never actually existed. The Colt Special model was a 3-band rifled-musket.

Correct me if I?m wrong.




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[Rob FreemanWBR]

The Witneville is nice and short - lightweight too.

Believe that the Jagger is the shortest allowable piece for musket matches.

As to your daughters petite frame, my Princess is in the same exact boat... Despite the size of the aforementioned pieces, their recoil was MORE than she wished to contend with. So on my case, giving her a few more years to grow physically will hopefully pay off in getting her reacquainted/comfortable with either piece at a later date.

[Carolina Reb]

If you can find an Enfield P-56 rifle, the barrel on those is considerably lighter than the P-58s, especially the repro P-58s. Unfortunately, they have not been reproduced, so the only way to go is a not so collector grade original. Have Bobby Hoyt sleeve it with 1 in 48 twist 5 groove progressive depth rifling. It will shoot great with 34 grains of FFF and the N-SSA bullet. Light recoil and quite accurate. It's a bit of a project though.

[Maillemaker]

I'm thinking carbine may be the way to go for her.

Steve

[jonk]

As a general observation, I have taught several women of light frame how to shoot. To a one, they all wanted to have light, petite firearms that would be easier for them to handle. To a one they all found the greater perceived recoil from the light gun problematic and ultimately preferred a heavier gun, even if harder to manage.

Consider that your average soldier of the 18th and 19th century was statistically just over 5 foot tall in many cases, and was required to field a smoothbore that was nearly as tall as they were, and much taller if bayonets came into play.

The "chick lean" is usually due to women trying to shoot guns with a stock profile that does not lend itself to their body shape. Women tend to lean back to try to compensate balance, and thrust their hip forward. Men tend to hunch their head down, when what they really need is a gun that fits them properly, combined with coaching and practice. After all: while over many shots fatigue comes into play, even a 10 year old can lift 12 pounds without difficulty, which is what our heaviest guns may weigh.

This isn't to say that it is a criticism that the young lady in question would probably do better with a shorter firearm. She likely would. But I wouldn't take it as gospel. One of my teammates is a woman who is of fairly short stature and moderate build and she prefers a 3 band.

My advice is, rather than trying to find the absolute shortest lightest legal gun, at a skirmish let her handle some weapons. I'm sure your teammates and any others at the skirmish would let her do so. Find a style that fits her, that she finds comfortable to hold. Maybe it is the shortest available, maybe not. Go from there.

My general rule would be a gun where most of the weight is near the back end. The sharps is a good candidate except you said her head is too low. So I think the best question here is: what guns have a fairly minimal comb?

As to eye dominance, I am left eye dominant. I simply close my left eye to shoot. Not ideal. Ideally both eyes should remain open and if you are right handed, if your right eye is dominant, you should be able to not close the left and still get a good sight picture. This said if her dexterity with her non dominant hand is enough to shoot left handed she certainly can.

[Hal]

Jonk is right about the recoil.

My wife would have to be the exception. She is, dare I say, "stubborn" about the weight of a three band rifle musket. She SWEARS it's too heavy to hold up. But takes bruising on her shoulder in stride. Actually, I believe the bruising is more a function of not holding it tight enough, but at any rate, she will deal with that, but refuses to shoot a 3 band unless its off the bench.

[MR. GADGET]

What about an 1851 Cadet rifle?

Smaller good balance, lighter.......

[Maillemaker]

Hi guys. I appreciate all the suggestions.

We went through holding all the guns that I own. Armisport 42, Pedersoli 1859 Sharps, Pedersoli 58, JRA Richmond Carbine, Euroarms P53.

She preferred the Richmond Carbine over all, and it was the shortest gun. It's also probably my most accurate gun, and it shoots a moderate load (RCBS Hodgdon with 44 grains 3F Goex. Also shoots the Moose Molds Wilkinson well with 50 grains 3F).

Any suggestion is going to have to be available as a reproduction arm. I can't afford originals.

Steve

[Bruce Cobb 1723V]

There isn't much difference between a Musketoon 25" and a Whitney or SN&W TC in length 30" / 31" She can't shoot the Musketoon on Sunday with you as its a Carbine not a Rifle. The Enfields have a straighter stock and are not as balanced as a Springfield type. The previous message about a rifled 1851 cadet is a good idea too.

[Joe Plakis, 9575V]

ORIGINAL VS REPRODUCTION.......

If you pick up 90% of reproductions, unless they are built with original barrels and custom wood, are going to be heavier. I had a brother-in-law that used to shoot a cut down 1861 Euroarms Springfield, and the weight was totally different than the original one that I had that was a "cutdown."

The same goes for the original 1863 SNWTC vs the one I bought from James River when they were in business.

In most cases you cannot truly compare the weight of an original vs a repro.

Try to find an original....

[Lou Lou Lou]

I have two original ?cutdown? Springfields that weigh between 8-9 pounds. Very light and easy to shoulder. Agree with Joe.

[Muley Gil]

I believe my 1863 Springfield artillery rifle weighs about 7-7 1/2 lbs. It is a lot lighter than my P-H 1858.

[John Bly]

The variations in weight of original muskets is due to the weight of the wood. The 2" of barrel from a standard artillery model to an SNWTC makes almost no differrnce. If she likes the Richmond carbine then a '61 or '63 artillery model should work OK.
One thing to consider is the length of pull. A small stature person may not be able to handle a full sized musket. The 1851 cadet has a shorter length of pull and the 1858 Cadet musket has a 1" shorter length of pull and a shorter barrel. They are scarce but there have been some hand made repros built.

[2kycav]

I may be mistaken but I believe I once owned a '63 Springfield cut down to artillery length that I believe the SAC card called a "Short rifle"....I believe I was told it was the shortest and lightest firearm legal for musket competition.....and it DID weigh less than my Springfield carbine......Good Luck!

[Lou Lou Lou]

Just weighed my two Razeed?s 7.75 lbs each.