bullet lubes....

[William H. Shuey]

Hi Troops:

In a thread in another discussion above a member makes reference to using a mix of lard and beeswax as a lube. He states that when he tried using Crisco and beeswax his group opened up. This got me to wondering as I heard some years ago that Crisco had changed their ingredients.

This got me to wondering if I should try a lard based lube. Anybody out there use lard and what are the things to look out for??
Do you have to keep it refrigerated??
And what are the ratios of lard to beeswax??

An inquiring mind wants to know.

Bill Shuey
1st Maine Heavy Artillery

[Lou Lou Lou]

i believe that was Poor Jack, PM hi

[Greg Ogdan 110th OVI]

Several of our members continue to use Crisco and don't seem to have problems with it. MCM lube works well also. If it isn't broken, why "fix" it?

[Kevin Tinny]

Hello:
Some time ago there was a "... changed the ingredients..." comment here.

So, GOOGLED "CRISCO history" to learn it was NEVER an animal product and was ALWAYS A VEGETABLE OIL.

No lard, if it matters.

Respectfully,
Kevin Tinny

[PoorJack]

Hi Troops:

In a thread in another discussion above a member makes reference to using a mix of lard and beeswax as a lube. He states that when he tried using Crisco and beeswax his group opened up. This got me to wondering as I heard some years ago that Crisco had changed their ingredients.

This got me to wondering if I should try a lard based lube. Anybody out there use lard and what are the things to look out for??
Do you have to keep it refrigerated??
And what are the ratios of lard to beeswax??

An inquiring mind wants to know.

Bill Shuey
1st Maine Heavy Artillery

Yeah, that was me. I was doing some reading on lubes in a buckskinning forum where I ran across it. What I can tell you is experiment. In my guns, the effect was significant and repeatable. I'm using 60/40 and don't refrigerate it. I just keep the pot with it covered when not lubing bullets. I do keep my loaded ammo in a cool dry place in storage and in a small lunch cooler at a skirmish to eliminate temperature variables.

My latest experiment used bison tallow instead of lard. One bullet that didn't show much improvement with lard is shooting one hole groups with the bison tallow.

[Jim Brady Knap's Battery]

I shouldn't have looked at this thread. I can feel Lefty trying to wake up!

[Hal]

Which is 60 and which is 40?

Also, does it ever turn rancid? If so, how long will it last before that happens?

[PoorJack]

60 beeswax 40 lard.

Doesn't go rancid if you keep it covered and don't make swimming pool size batches.

[Hal]

Thanks. I may give that a try.

[Carolina Reb]

Capt. John Mallet, of the CS Central Ordnance Laboratory standardized musket bullet lube in April of 1863 at 2 parts beeswax and one part tallow. Before then, every ordnance lab was using it's own formula and the Confederate armies were having the same lube problems many of us have.

[John Holland]

For 57 years I have used "Crisco" in the base cavity and on the rings. With that, I have boxes of medals I have won with just plain Crisco, even with the change in ingredients some 30 or so years ago. BUT....I don't shoot in the Deep South in the Summer, either, where it would probably melt out of the base & rings before I could get a shot off! I also use Crisco as a lube on the patches of my round ball rifles, and it works just fine there, too. Nothing is universal, it all depends on the rifle itself, the climate, and the mind-set of the shooter.

I will now look foreword to a visit from the long dormant "Lefty", whose wisdom on using Olive Oil and Monkey Sweat is nothing short of Legendary!

[threepdr]

Capt. John Mallet, of the CS Central Ordnance Laboratory standardized musket bullet lube in April of 1863 at 2 parts beeswax and one part tallow. Before then, every ordnance lab was using it's own formula and the Confederate armies were having the same lube problems many of us have.

Reb,

Can you share the source on Capt Mallet's correspondence concerning the 2:1 formula? The 1860 and 1861 US Ordnance Manual states 8 parts beeswax to one part tallow. I'm making another batch soon, I like to document the softer CS lube.

[threepdr]

BUT....I don't shoot in the Deep South in the Summer, either, where it would probably melt out of the base & rings before I could get a shot off!

John, you are very correct. Crisco is a winter only lube in the Deep South!

[PoorJack]

In my experiments with MY guns, Crisco runs second to lard for accuracy. Others may have good results with it and it is pretty much a standard in most black powder shooting circles. One of my team members uses it on his musketoon with great results. In my PH musketoon and 2 band, lard won hands down with groups in the sub 2moa range. Crisco was in the 3+moa range, still good enough for skimirshing, but if sub 2moa is available, that's where I'm going. I guess it's probably the collection of all the variables and how they interact. Bottom line is you have to experiment with your stuff, keep records, change one variable at the time and retest. Yes it's time consuming but a day at the range is often more pleasant than a day at the office.

So in the Scout project this summer, I ran a Zouave musket for over 50 rounds straight without wiping during one of the open shoots. During this shoot, one kid was shooting the chains on the gongs and hitting with that musket. Bullet was Hogdon sized to .579 lubed with beeswax/lard, nothing in base. 50+ shots with accuracy, I'm afraid I'm not so enthusiastic about Crisco anymore. Not to say I won't try it again if I have to work up another musket/load combination.

[Carolina Reb]

Mallet's formula is reported in Maurice Melton's Emory University 1978 doctoral thesis "Major Military Industries of the Confederate Government", p 323. This paper has a lot of detailed information on Confederate ordnance operations and ammunition.

[threepdr]

Mallet's formula is reported in Maurice Melton's Emory University 1978 doctoral thesis "Major Military Industries of the Confederate Government", p 323. This paper has a lot of detailed information on Confederate ordnance operations and ammunition.


Thanks Reb!

[Bruce Cobb 1723V]

I see this as great information to help give everyone different ways of improving our shooting. We already know every gun shoots different. Its all trial and error! Shooters of the past found this out for themselves. One was Pope! I'm sure you have heard of him.

[John Holland]

And.....A.O. Neidner!

[Hal]

Finding lard is proving to be a problem. Guess everyone is too health conscious for it to be a big seller anymore.

[singleshot]

Super market or butcher shop. Butcher shop probably would be your best place it's right off the animal after being butchered.

[PoorJack]

Finding lard is proving to be a problem. Guess everyone is too health conscious for it to be a big seller anymore.

Grocery store in the baking aisle right next to Crisco, evo, and cooking oils.

[Hal]

I'll have to try a butcher shop. No grocery stores in my area carry it anymore.

[Muley Gil]

I'll have to try a butcher shop. No grocery stores in my area carry it anymore.

The Wal-Mart stores here in SW Virginia carry lard. I bought some a while back to fry some chicken.

[cjohnson]

I'll have to try a butcher shop. No grocery stores in my area carry it anymore.
Hal,
Lose the lard, the hog fat. The army used mutton tallow, lamb or sheep fat.
Cass
57th Virginia

[Hal]

No sheep in this area, and I'm not nearly as worried about correctness as I am a possible means of tightening up a group. If lard does that for some, it might do it for me.

I have not had time to look for lard since my last post. I must admit I did not try Wal-Mart. I hate them with every fiber of my being and never think about them even being there. I suppose i could give them a try.

There are a couple of "Abattoirs" in the area. I might try them first.

[cjohnson]

What it will do is draw flies, just like a greasy haversack. Dixie has sheeps tallow. Or simply make some Emmerts. Heck, tighten your group , use plain candle wax with a little Vaseline as a polymer.
Cass
57th Virginia Infantry

[Hal]

I think you fail to understand that I wish to try Poor Jack's recipe.

[Southron Sr.]

I like a 60%/40% mixture of REAL Beeswax and Bore Butter. The mixture can be changed slightly depending on the weather...on colder days I increase the amount of Bore Butter slightly and visa versa.

I started using Crisco in my lube formula in the 1960's and quit in the late 1980's. Every Skirmish season I used Crisco in my lube formula, I would have anywhere from 2 to 4 "Cook Offs" every year. Usually the "Cook Offs" occurred on hot days during RAPID FIRE team events.

I stopped using Crisco in the late 1980's AND HAVEN'T HAD A "COOK OFF" SINCE.

Never, never substitute paraffin for beeswax in your lube formula, as paraffin and black powder fouling seems to produce a low grade asphalt!

As for using real lard in your lube formula, consider that SALT (for preservation purposes) is mixed in with the lard. So, do you want to have salt in the black powder fouling in your bore?

[PoorJack]

Salt isn't an issue if you clean your gun after shooting.

Point is to try different lube mixes to optimize accuracy in each gun.

[tackdriver]

How long does the 60 bees and 40 lard last for you guys once it's been put on the bullet? I used it to lube bullets 8 months ago and now the wax on these bullets really sticks to the barrel on its way down. I assume no one makes a fresh batch every time they shoot??