Kerr rifle barrels?

[keweenaw]

A while back, I recall seeing a thread about some modern barrel maker making barrels with the Kerr rifling system. Does anyone know about this? Are these available today? If so, can someone provide details please? Thanks

[Muley Gil]

I did a search and it appears that Hoyt was supposed to make the barrels.

https://www.n-ssa.net/vbforum/search.php?searchid=825968

[John Holland]

Yes, R.A. Hoyt did make them on a limited special order basis, and as I recall they were .451 caliber.

[keweenaw]

Does Mr. Hoyt monitor this forum? May I get contact info for him? Thanks

[John Bly]

Hoyt does not monitor the forum that I know. He made those Kerr barrels several years ago as a special order. His phone # is 717-642-6696. It is best to call in the early morning. I've heard reports that he is hard to contact lately. Be patient.

[keweenaw]

Thanks. Does anyone on the forum have one of these Kerr barrels. Can you provide details on accuracy? Thanks

[yellowhousejake]

keweenaw,

I have one of the Kerr barrels by Bobby Hoyt. I used mine in a PH P-53 and did okay with it. I was just getting started in MLAIC Long Range shooting and had a lot to learn, I still do. I did struggle with accuracy but not due to the barrel. Rather, how I managed my fouling. I moved up to a Pedersoli Whitworth and then, then, I learned how to manage my barrel condition.

After several years shooting both rifles, and shooting them side by side more than once, I think the Kerr is on par with the Whitworth if it is loaded and cleaned properly. Currently, my Kerr barrel is out of the stock and the .577 barrel returned to the PH. I plan to build a match Kerr around the barrel when other projects are completed.

I do not know if Bobby is still making the barrels or not, I would think he would if his cutters are still good. You can call, but it may take several tries to get him on the phone in the shop. Bobby does not do email, internet, etc. Great guy to talk to.

DAve

[keweenaw]

keweenaw,

I have one of the Kerr barrels by Bobby Hoyt. I used mine in a PH P-53 and did okay with it. I was just getting started in MLAIC Long Range shooting and had a lot to learn, I still do. I did struggle with accuracy but not due to the barrel. Rather, how I managed my fouling. I moved up to a Pedersoli Whitworth and then, then, I learned how to manage my barrel condition.

After several years shooting both rifles, and shooting them side by side more than once, I think the Kerr is on par with the Whitworth if it is loaded and cleaned properly. Currently, my Kerr barrel is out of the stock and the .577 barrel returned to the PH. I plan to build a match Kerr around the barrel when other projects are completed.

I do not know if Bobby is still making the barrels or not, I would think he would if his cutters are still good. You can call, but it may take several tries to get him on the phone in the shop. Bobby does not do email, internet, etc. Great guy to talk to.

DAve
Thanks for the info. I would like to pursue your comments about managing the fouling in more detail. I currently have a repro whitworth (PH) and been working with it a bit. Recently have been having problems with group migration. Literally, the group moves. Yesterday I had an excellent group, then for no apparent reason, the group shifted about 6-8 inches. No change in bullet, powder, sight picture or anything. Shooting vernier peep sight rear and globe front from a bench. I have a hex cleaning jag and I have been wet patching the bore between shots. Loading powder with a brass drop tube as well. I suppose some of this might be shooter error, but I am interested in your input on fouling management. Thanks!!

[yellowhousejake]

keweenaw,

You can follow my entire trip through getting my rifles shooting well here.

https://vringblog.wordpress.com

That is a blog I put up to keep 'Pat in Virginia' from this board up to date with my endeavors. he is to blame for getting me started down this rabbit hole ;) The blog is long and it wanders, but you will be privy to all my mistakes and stumbling along the way.

As to managing fouling, I think of it more as "Barrel Condition". I have seen shooters keep their barrels squeaky clean and others just use a quick wipe reversing the patch and loading right away. Both ways produce winning scores. I believe, and I am certainly no expert, that it matters more that your barrel is the same each shot whether "the same" is referring to clean or dirty. My last trip to Oak Ridge earlier this year was very good. Just at the end of the 1000 yard relay I made progress with judging wind and finally was able to shoot well. Reading the wind is my next task to overcome.

Two weeks ago at the NMLRA Spring shoot several of us were shooting at the 500 yard Mini Creedmore target and I was able to hit the bull with boring regularity while describing my rifle and load to spectators. Just a year earlier, I was jumping up and down with joy for hitting it just once in a dozen shots.

I will be happy to help any way I can with your efforts.

DAve

[Muley Gil]

Is your rifle glass bedded? Did the weather change any, in particular the humidity?

[keweenaw]

Is your rifle glass bedded? Did the weather change any, in particular the humidity?

Rifle is not glass bedded (yet). However, I would think that if bedding was a serious problem, that it would not group well at all. In this case, it was grouping well, but then the group migrated several inches.

No weather changes, no change in sights, loading procedure. Very snug fitting bullet. Bullets dug out of backstop how good hex shape.

[yellowhousejake]

I had a long post for you yesterday but it got held by the mod. I have not seen it come through yet.

Drifting groups would lead me to think it was bedding or bands. Bill Adams has a great article on bedding the military stocked rifle. I followed his instructions on my Enfield and my Whitworth.

Let's see if this post goes through...

DAve

[yellowhousejake]

Okay, that post worked. When working with students I have always said that if you had a group anomaly, odd groups with big changes that often reversed themselves, it is almost always the shooter. Sometimes sight picture, sometimes how you managed the rifle such as position, sometimes how you assembled the rifle after cleaning.

If the moving group is not the shooter, I would look at bedding. Here is Bill Curtis article.
http://www.researchpress.co.uk/index.php/firearms/british-military-longarms/enfield/managing-the-enfield

Here is what I wrote when I followed his instructions.
https://vringblog.wordpress.com/2016/01/27/bedding-the-p53-barrel/
https://vringblog.wordpress.com/2016/06/26/blah/

I personally would not glass bed a rifle until the only options left were selling it or replacing the stock. It is rare that a rifle requires glass bedding, it is not reversible and can disqualify a rifle from international competition should you decide to go that route.

Keep in mind that with the full stocked rifle something as small as ramrod position can show itself in the group at 200 yards. Forearm band tension, grip position, canting the rifle all can shift groups at distance also. A bench can magnify those effects as well.

DAve

[yellowhousejake]

Okay, I have two posts now held for moderation. I put URLs in them, so hopefully you will get to read them.

DAve

[John Holland]

Yellowhousejake - I don't see anything in the moderation que, so I hope everything has been taken care of by one of the other moderators. Just so you know, there is some kind of algorithm which places "suspicious" posts there automatically, we don't do it.

I want to tell you how much I am enjoying this particular thread, and the immense amount of knowledge and experience you are sharing with us! Some time ago I acquired one of Hoyt's .451 altered barrels for a Euroarms P-53. It came with a special ram rod and a mould. However I don't think the mould is appropriate as it is a Lyman .457/550 grain greaser. I suspect the previous owner gave up in utter frustration because of trying to size the .457 bullet down so far to fit the .451 bore. I haven't had the time to play with it yet.

Again, thank you, and please continue with this absolutely fascinating topic!

[keweenaw]

Okay, I have two posts now held for moderation. I put URLs in them, so hopefully you will get to read them.

DAve

Have not seen anything yet. If anyone has one of these barrels they would part with, I would be interested. Thanks

[yellowhousejake]

Yellowhousejake - I don't see anything in the moderation que, so I hope everything has been taken care of by one of the other moderators. Just so you know, there is some kind of algorithm which places "suspicious" posts there automatically, we don't do it.

I want to tell you how much I am enjoying this particular thread, and the immense amount of knowledge and experience you are sharing with us! Some time ago I acquired one of Hoyt's .451 altered barrels for a Euroarms P-53. It came with a special ram rod and a mould. However I don't think the mould is appropriate as it is a Lyman .457/550 grain greaser. I suspect the previous owner gave up in utter frustration because of trying to size the .457 bullet down so far to fit the .451 bore. I haven't had the time to play with it yet.

Again, thank you, and please continue with this absolutely fascinating topic!

Posts #9 and #13 were the ones and they are now here. Thanks to whomever did that.

John, I would not call anything I have to offer an immense amount of knowledge. A big list of mistakes maybe! I am glad you find value in it and I will happily offer any advice I can.

I would think that yes, the .457 grease bullet would be a problem to get shooting well. There are lots of .442 smooth bullets suitable for paper patching available. Both the ones I use are from Accurate Molds and I could not be happier with them. Quality mold and a fair price. I can provide the mold numbers if anyone is interested.

DAve

[yellowhousejake]

I must have the "moderate me" gene. I can't seem to get anything posted if it is longer than a sentence.

DAve